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China Milk posts 73% fall in Q2 profit to $6m
China Milk Products Group says its net profit for the second quarter to ending September fell 72.8% to RMB29.46 million ($6 million).
Sales also fell 75.2% to RMB41.14 million due to the decrease in the selling prices of pedigree bull semen by 57.1% and raw milk by 1
0.5% as well as weak demand for bull semen.
actually the whole thing is getting a bit confusing.. if i am not wrong, there are activists who are against the use of palm oil, claiming environmental destruction etc.
i can find the link if you what.
what is relevant is that maybe the etika-wilmar-PPB Group link is beneficial.
but do note that the the Tan family owns slightly above 50% of the company's shares and that there is close to razor thin trading every day. how they will expand without causing themself to issue cash call will be a potential issue.
thomas_low ( Date: 27-Sep-2009 00:09) Posted:
Hehe..Etika keeps the palm oil industry busy, turning palm oil into "milk"...good solid milk though. Still undervalue.
China Milk is a dodgy play, for a bit of gamble, one day dive deep, next day shoot high high. The high high is real high man...% terms.
gregorsamsa ( Date: 26-Sep-2009 12:10) Posted:
If you want to get milk counter, get Etika International instead...
It has a more realistic expansion plan, and every thing is above board www.sgxstockpicker.blogspot.com
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hey.. thanks alot cheers...support every saturday cause i will update my portfolio.
tkimcs ( Date: 26-Sep-2009 23:34) Posted:
thanks, saw your blog, very interesting!
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Hehe..Etika keeps the palm oil industry busy, turning palm oil into "milk"...good solid milk though. Still undervalue.
China Milk is a dodgy play, for a bit of gamble, one day dive deep, next day shoot high high. The high high is real high man...% terms.
gregorsamsa ( Date: 26-Sep-2009 12:10) Posted:
If you want to get milk counter, get Etika International instead...
It has a more realistic expansion plan, and every thing is above board www.sgxstockpicker.blogspot.com
tkimcs ( Date: 31-Aug-2009 00:03) Posted:
Starlene, i really learnt alot on this counter. May I asked what about your analysis on China Dairy?
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thanks, saw your blog, very interesting!
If you want to get milk counter, get Etika International instead...
It has a more realistic expansion plan, and every thing is above board
www.sgxstockpicker.blogspot.com
tkimcs ( Date: 31-Aug-2009 00:03) Posted:
Starlene, i really learnt alot on this counter. May I asked what about your analysis on China Dairy?
starlene ( Date: 30-Aug-2009 23:56) Posted:
RE: China Milk Products
There are 2 big issues with this company:
1. Creative accounting 2. Poor handling of convertible bonds
Creative Accounting
The 1Q 2010 profit and loss statement reeks of creative accounting.
The 2009 annual report states that revenue is recognised:
1. From the sale of goods when risk/reward of ownership/control has been transferred; and 2. From interest income
Obviously only #1 relates to the sale of milk, embryos and sperm. But looking at the income statement, revenue is described 2 ways: "Revenue" and "Fair Value".
"Fair Value" is a bigger number so it's conveniently used to compute the reported profits. But what, exactly, is "fair value"? The company gives 2 components:
i. value of agricultural produce i.e. milk, embryos, and sperm; and ii. value of dairy livestock
The proportion is 90/10 so we can set aside the livestock for the time being.
In the 2009 annual report, the revenue number is quite close to the fair value, within 10%, of the agricultural produce for both FY2008 and FY2009.
But in 1Q 2010, the difference is about 30%.
2 questions:
1. Why is there such a big difference between the company's own fair value estimate for its products and the price it actually got for them in the market?
Clearly, if the company thinks the products are worth $1 but it got only $0.70 for them, the real value is $0.70, not $1. What happened to the $0.30? If it's not reflected in lower earnings in the income statement, then it may be hiding in inflated inventories or trade receivables, and will show up eventually as inventory provisions and bad debt.
2. What was the underlying profit based on actual sales revenue?
If we use the revenue figure instead of the fair value figures, and strip out interest income and the gains from repurchase of convertible bonds, and ignore the non-cash charge from the convertible bonds, we get:
Revenue RMB 111m
less: Operating Costs RMB 85m
equals: Profit RMB 26m
The underlying profit of RMB 26m is quite a bit less than the accounting profit of RMB 65m that the company is reporting.
Poor Handling of Convertible Bonds
The company's feeble attempts to repurchase its convertible bonds suggest that the company was only trying to put on a show. The tender for the bonds closed after just 1 day (on April Fools' Day, no less), and only 2% of the principal was bought back. The company paid 95% of par, plus 1% commission, for 96% net.
This is totally idiotic because from November 2008 through March 2009 the company could have bought the bonds on the open market without calling for a tender, and the bonds were selling at significant discounts to par.
If the company was serious about the repurchase, it could have called any investment bank and told it to buy a big block. The likes of Goldman Sachs would be more than happy to perform this service; if they were worried about payment they could have asked for a deposit, or for the payment to be escrowed in advance.
Buying on the open market using a prime broker would have easily allowed the company to cancel 20-30% of its convertible debt, at discounts of 30-40% or even more. This would have saved the company at least US$10m, about RMB 70m. Why didn't they do this?
Some possible answers:
1. The cash was fake, so the transaction could not be funded; or 2. The management was too lazy to track the prices of the convertible bonds; or 3. The management was too stupid to realize there was "free money" available.
In other words, maybe the management was dishonest, lazy, or stupid, or some combination of the three. There are of course other possible explanations, some of which may cast the management in a better light. I will leave it to forum readers to dream those up.
As usual, YMMV. |
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Time has cum for the bull siemens and milk company to shoot upwards...(opologise for poor inglish)
whack on increase vol..hehehe
Once again, this milk seems want to u turn
especially when it is now added into the Mid Cap index..
Starlene, i really learnt alot on this counter. May I asked what about your analysis on China Dairy?
starlene ( Date: 30-Aug-2009 23:56) Posted:
RE: China Milk Products
There are 2 big issues with this company:
1. Creative accounting 2. Poor handling of convertible bonds
Creative Accounting
The 1Q 2010 profit and loss statement reeks of creative accounting.
The 2009 annual report states that revenue is recognised:
1. From the sale of goods when risk/reward of ownership/control has been transferred; and 2. From interest income
Obviously only #1 relates to the sale of milk, embryos and sperm. But looking at the income statement, revenue is described 2 ways: "Revenue" and "Fair Value".
"Fair Value" is a bigger number so it's conveniently used to compute the reported profits. But what, exactly, is "fair value"? The company gives 2 components:
i. value of agricultural produce i.e. milk, embryos, and sperm; and ii. value of dairy livestock
The proportion is 90/10 so we can set aside the livestock for the time being.
In the 2009 annual report, the revenue number is quite close to the fair value, within 10%, of the agricultural produce for both FY2008 and FY2009.
But in 1Q 2010, the difference is about 30%.
2 questions:
1. Why is there such a big difference between the company's own fair value estimate for its products and the price it actually got for them in the market?
Clearly, if the company thinks the products are worth $1 but it got only $0.70 for them, the real value is $0.70, not $1. What happened to the $0.30? If it's not reflected in lower earnings in the income statement, then it may be hiding in inflated inventories or trade receivables, and will show up eventually as inventory provisions and bad debt.
2. What was the underlying profit based on actual sales revenue?
If we use the revenue figure instead of the fair value figures, and strip out interest income and the gains from repurchase of convertible bonds, and ignore the non-cash charge from the convertible bonds, we get:
Revenue RMB 111m
less: Operating Costs RMB 85m
equals: Profit RMB 26m
The underlying profit of RMB 26m is quite a bit less than the accounting profit of RMB 65m that the company is reporting.
Poor Handling of Convertible Bonds
The company's feeble attempts to repurchase its convertible bonds suggest that the company was only trying to put on a show. The tender for the bonds closed after just 1 day (on April Fools' Day, no less), and only 2% of the principal was bought back. The company paid 95% of par, plus 1% commission, for 96% net.
This is totally idiotic because from November 2008 through March 2009 the company could have bought the bonds on the open market without calling for a tender, and the bonds were selling at significant discounts to par.
If the company was serious about the repurchase, it could have called any investment bank and told it to buy a big block. The likes of Goldman Sachs would be more than happy to perform this service; if they were worried about payment they could have asked for a deposit, or for the payment to be escrowed in advance.
Buying on the open market using a prime broker would have easily allowed the company to cancel 20-30% of its convertible debt, at discounts of 30-40% or even more. This would have saved the company at least US$10m, about RMB 70m. Why didn't they do this?
Some possible answers:
1. The cash was fake, so the transaction could not be funded; or 2. The management was too lazy to track the prices of the convertible bonds; or 3. The management was too stupid to realize there was "free money" available.
In other words, maybe the management was dishonest, lazy, or stupid, or some combination of the three. There are of course other possible explanations, some of which may cast the management in a better light. I will leave it to forum readers to dream those up.
As usual, YMMV. |
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RE: China Milk Products
There are 2 big issues with this company:
1. Creative accounting
2. Poor handling of convertible bonds
Creative Accounting
The 1Q 2010 profit and loss statement reeks of creative accounting.
The 2009 annual report states that revenue is recognised:
1. From the sale of goods when risk/reward of ownership/control has been transferred; and
2. From interest income
Obviously only #1 relates to the sale of milk, embryos and sperm. But looking at the income statement, revenue is described 2 ways: "Revenue" and "Fair Value".
"Fair Value" is a bigger number so it's conveniently used to compute the reported profits. But what, exactly, is "fair value"? The company gives 2 components:
i. value of agricultural produce i.e. milk, embryos, and sperm; and
ii. value of dairy livestock
The proportion is 90/10 so we can set aside the livestock for the time being.
In the 2009 annual report, the revenue number is quite close to the fair value, within 10%, of the agricultural produce for both FY2008 and FY2009.
But in 1Q 2010, the difference is about 30%.
2 questions:
1. Why is there such a big difference between the company's own fair value estimate for its products and the price it actually got for them in the market?
Clearly, if the company thinks the products are worth $1 but it got only $0.70 for them, the real value is $0.70, not $1. What happened to the $0.30? If it's not reflected in lower earnings in the income statement, then it may be hiding in inflated inventories or trade receivables, and will show up eventually as inventory provisions and bad debt.
2. What was the underlying profit based on actual sales revenue?
If we use the revenue figure instead of the fair value figures, and strip out interest income and the gains from repurchase of convertible bonds, and ignore the non-cash charge from the convertible bonds, we get:
Revenue RMB 111m
less:
Operating Costs RMB 85m
equals:
Profit RMB 26m
The underlying profit of RMB 26m is quite a bit less than the accounting profit of RMB 65m that the company is reporting.
Poor Handling of Convertible Bonds
The company's feeble attempts to repurchase its convertible bonds suggest that the company was only trying to put on a show. The tender for the bonds closed after just 1 day (on April Fools' Day, no less), and only 2% of the principal was bought back. The company paid 95% of par, plus 1% commission, for 96% net.
This is totally idiotic because from November 2008 through March 2009 the company could have bought the bonds on the open market without calling for a tender, and the bonds were selling at significant discounts to par.
If the company was serious about the repurchase, it could have called any investment bank and told it to buy a big block. The likes of Goldman Sachs would be more than happy to perform this service; if they were worried about payment they could have asked for a deposit, or for the payment to be escrowed in advance.
Buying on the open market using a prime broker would have easily allowed the company to cancel 20-30% of its convertible debt, at discounts of 30-40% or even more. This would have saved the company at least US$10m, about RMB 70m. Why didn't they do this?
Some possible answers:
1. The cash was fake, so the transaction could not be funded; or
2. The management was too lazy to track the prices of the convertible bonds; or
3. The management was too stupid to realize there was "free money" available.
In other words, maybe the management was dishonest, lazy, or stupid, or some combination of the three. There are of course other possible explanations, some of which may cast the management in a better light. I will leave it to forum readers to dream those up.
As usual, YMMV.
Got queried by SGX..wait for it to drop back to 52-55cts then buy back..
phil1314 ( Date: 30-Jul-2009 16:08) Posted:
Hi techsys,
Counter also mentioned in The Edge:
China Milk Products Group ($0.51), a bull semen producer has suddenly surged on explosive volume. It's up 20% in two sessions. The move has taken prices to just short of a breakout level at 52 cents. Short and medium term momentum indicators have turned up, and the moving averages are poised for a series of golden crosses. A successful brak above 52 cents indicate a target of 63 cents. Support is at 47 cents. - By Goola Warden.
techsys ( Date: 30-Jul-2009 11:36) Posted:
This counter is seemed getting better now.
Even tough there is a little draw back to their capital, but it's starting to get up. |
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well, i read so many of these queries on so many counters
my observation is: standard queries and standard answers and not affecting the price.. price is affected by certain unique force
starlene ( Date: 29-Aug-2009 23:22) Posted:
Got queried by SGX hope for it to drop back to 52-55cts b4 buying back |
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Got queried by SGX hope for it to drop back to 52-55cts b4 buying back
:) I hope u guys still holding this burger :P HUAT ah
risktaker ( Date: 16-Aug-2009 22:56) Posted:
Buy :) Why not its dirt cheap.
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Is it still worth while to buy into this counter at today price. I let go at 0.5 and within few days, it rises to 0.59!
Alligator ( Date: 28-Aug-2009 11:33) Posted:
today this milk is strong and is trying to break the last peaks around 55-56cent
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today this milk is strong and is trying to break the last peaks around 55-56cent
Buy :) Why not its dirt cheap.
I would say..
Long term investment on this stock is definitely a "UP"..
Personal view only..
rgds, star-trader
any experts take on this counter? will it continue its downtrend or go back up?