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There may be some elements of truth but may not be exactly as mentioned here. This may explain about the fake Q which at time disappeared with just a blink of the eyes and also sudden price movement.
How true can this be??????, Scary Sia!!!
stockmarketmind ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 12:06) Posted:
Dont be swayed. We can't control how the exchange works, but one thing never change and that is BBs movement. It can be detected!
steadylar ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 11:08) Posted:
| You may be right abt how the algorithms work, they are designed to corner the mkt. Is there still hope for ikan bilis like us? |
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Dont be swayed. We can't control how the exchange works, but one thing never change and that is BBs movement. It can be detected!
steadylar ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 11:08) Posted:
You may be right abt how the algorithms work, they are designed to corner the mkt. Is there still hope for ikan bilis like us?
Laulan ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 10:49) Posted:
For those who dont know what we are talking about, esp the newbies, our sotck market is run by a software program to facilitate transactions, much like your window programs to facilitate your work. The sgx program allows brokers to key in your trades and automatically match them with other's trades. Your trade goes to the brokers' computers first before it goes to the exchage. Brokers computers links direct with the exchange's designated computers like your networking computers.
If another software is working in the exchange (not so worried about out of it) that is capable of instructing the computers to block, stop, hang or move the prices, than some insider syndicate capable of inserting this program can rake in big multimillion dollars at everyone's disadvantage. It all involves a formula to instruct the computers at SGX.
An example of a program with this formula can actually work to your disadvantage:
If you market buy (the machine sells and executed) 10 lots at X and the visible bid queue B is greater than zero (meaning, should it still be there), then (B=0) meaning visible bid queue is to be withdrawn, AND those orders not ours, Sell them all , and then replace bid price at B minus 1 bid, and ask price as A minus 1.
The above is not a complete program, but it illustrates that when such aformula is executed with the buy action in the example, then you can see the screen prices, bid and asking prices change immediately.
I am not saying that SGX is having this unfair thing in their system, but this is always possible where money is to be made.
NOTE: I don't know much about computers and programing, and I might be wrong.
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What we can do is to wage a boycott of SGX and with all non clearing institution members doing the same, but in doing so our economy might suffer a bit and SGX will have little income from trading. Only the big members will be fighting among themselves.
spkcheong ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 11:17) Posted:
Irrespective of you being right or wrong, I reckon when if a massive fraud is committed via SGX computers and innocent retail investors get cheated, it will be akin to S-chips fraudsters laughing all the way into hiding. SGX will disclaim responsibility, that much I can expect. Small or Big investors pay trading fees/charges. But small players have little or no avenues for recourse without SGX action.
Laulan ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 10:49) Posted:
For those who dont know what we are talking about, esp the newbies, our sotck market is run by a software program to facilitate transactions, much like your window programs to facilitate your work. The sgx program allows brokers to key in your trades and automatically match them with other's trades. Your trade goes to the brokers' computers first before it goes to the exchage. Brokers computers links direct with the exchange's designated computers like your networking computers.
If another software is working in the exchange (not so worried about out of it) that is capable of instructing the computers to block, stop, hang or move the prices, than some insider syndicate capable of inserting this program can rake in big multimillion dollars at everyone's disadvantage. It all involves a formula to instruct the computers at SGX.
An example of a program with this formula can actually work to your disadvantage:
If you market buy (the machine sells and executed) 10 lots at X and the visible bid queue B is greater than zero (meaning, should it still be there), then (B=0) meaning visible bid queue is to be withdrawn, AND those orders not ours, Sell them all , and then replace bid price at B minus 1 bid, and ask price as A minus 1.
The above is not a complete program, but it illustrates that when such aformula is executed with the buy action in the example, then you can see the screen prices, bid and asking prices change immediately.
I am not saying that SGX is having this unfair thing in their system, but this is always possible where money is to be made.
NOTE: I don't know much about computers and programing, and I might be wrong.
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I don't dispute that US market and European markets are also risky and challenging, but if you look at their prices they have wide range for you to escape and their brokerage commissions are low so you can exit a trade with minimal losses if you want. Not in Singapore..when your brokerage commission works out to more or nearly 3 quarter percent. A $100 gain in a trade would easily lose you money in Singapore, whereas in US markets, you probably make $70 if that happens.
Furthermore recently I discovered that whenever you buy a counter, the price changes very fast downwards. It is obviously the work of algorithm in SGX computers.
MasterNg9999 ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 11:30) Posted:
Er...
US market and Euro Market lagi worse ler....
Here is a question for the paranoics out there: Can we tell any difference between High frequency trading and cyberattacks?
We have previously discussed how the NYSE allowing co-located HFT servers is the equivalent of turning our national security over to Skynet.
We now have a new Robot Uprising: It is becoming increasingly difficult for exchanges to tell the difference between ordinary market disfunctions caused by High frequency trading and purposeful attacks:
“New robotic-trading strategies are attempting to hack futures and equities markets — again. The suspicious activity appears unconnected to the October cyberattack on Nasdaq OMX Group (ticker: NDAQ) now being investigated by the National Security Agency. But there seems to be a new team of trading ‘bots abroad — and yes, they’re distorting prices.”
Eric Hunsader, founder of Nanex, who blamed the Flash Crash on HFT, has a new concern about the latest algorithmic funny business. Some are instantly buying or selling E-mini contracts in huge quantities in about 50 milliseconds. Another algo is rapidly changing order sizes in about 20 – 40 stocks on Nasdaq for a “few milliseconds several times a day. (Each stock is traded anywhere from 2,000 to 4,000 times a second, double to quadruple the norm).
The exchanges, which get paid by HFT traders, seem unconcerned. The activity has so far flooded the quote system, but has caused no harm. Yet.
I am VERY curious: What security procedures occur prior to a co-located server being installed? What rules govern which overseas firms can buy a co-located HFT shop?
Given the damage the creator (US/Israel/Germany/whoever) of the Stuxnet worm did to the Iranian Nuclear program, what can an HFT firm dedicated to damaging the US economy do if they attempted so? What security measures are in place to prevent this?
How much mischief can HFT/malware accomplish . . . ?
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/04/malicious-hftmalware/
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424052970203560404576228920925930788.html
Hahahah... ROBOT UNION!!!!
Cheer
Laulan ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 11:18) Posted:
Frankly speaking, we have no hope and that is why I am moving out to other markets.
US market and many ang moh markets are obviously fairer and not risky. They have their lobbyists who will ensure fair play, and probably we haven't been lucky to have one. Not to mix a market credibility with the country's credibility.
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He's not a man - a machine. A Terminator. A Cyberdyne Systems Model 101
asta la vista ... baby
Er...
US market and Euro Market lagi worse ler....
Here is a question for the paranoics out there:
Can we tell any difference between High frequency trading and cyberattacks?
We have
previously discussed how the NYSE allowing co-located HFT servers is the equivalent of turning our national security over to Skynet.
We now have a new Robot Uprising: It is becoming increasingly difficult for exchanges to tell the difference between ordinary market disfunctions caused by High frequency trading and purposeful attacks:
“New robotic-trading strategies are attempting to hack futures and equities markets — again. The suspicious activity appears unconnected to the October cyberattack on Nasdaq OMX Group (ticker: NDAQ) now being investigated by the National Security Agency. But there seems to be a new team of trading ‘bots abroad — and yes, they’re distorting prices.”
Eric Hunsader, founder of Nanex, who blamed the Flash Crash on HFT, has a new concern about the latest algorithmic funny business. Some are instantly buying or selling E-mini contracts in huge quantities in about 50 milliseconds. Another algo is rapidly changing order sizes in about 20 – 40 stocks on Nasdaq for a
“few milliseconds several times a day. (Each stock is traded anywhere from 2,000 to 4,000 times a second, double to quadruple the norm).
The exchanges, which get paid by HFT traders, seem unconcerned. The activity has so far flooded the quote system, but has caused no harm. Yet.
I am VERY curious: What security procedures occur prior to a co-located server being installed? What rules govern which overseas firms can buy a co-located HFT shop?
Given the damage the creator (US/Israel/Germany/whoever) of the Stuxnet worm did to the Iranian Nuclear program, what can an HFT firm dedicated to damaging the US economy do if they attempted so? What security measures are in place to prevent this?
How much mischief can HFT/malware accomplish . . . ?
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/04/malicious-hftmalware/
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424052970203560404576228920925930788.html
Hahahah... ROBOT UNION!!!!
Cheer
Laulan ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 11:18) Posted:
Frankly speaking, we have no hope and that is why I am moving out to other markets.
US market and many ang moh markets are obviously fairer and not risky. They have their lobbyists who will ensure fair play, and probably we haven't been lucky to have one. Not to mix a market credibility with the country's credibility.
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That's why thou shalt not love thy stocks... lol...
steadylar ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 11:12) Posted:
| machines have no feelings, while human traders can be swayed by emotions. |
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Frankly speaking, we have no hope and that is why I am moving out to other markets.
US market and many ang moh markets are obviously fairer and not risky. They have their lobbyists who will ensure fair play, and probably we haven't been lucky to have one. Not to mix a market credibility with the country's credibility.
Irrespective of you being right or wrong, I reckon when if a massive fraud is committed via SGX computers and innocent retail investors get cheated, it will be akin to S-chips fraudsters laughing all the way into hiding. SGX will disclaim responsibility, that much I can expect. Small or Big investors pay trading fees/charges. But small players have little or no avenues for recourse without SGX action.
Laulan ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 10:49) Posted:
For those who dont know what we are talking about, esp the newbies, our sotck market is run by a software program to facilitate transactions, much like your window programs to facilitate your work. The sgx program allows brokers to key in your trades and automatically match them with other's trades. Your trade goes to the brokers' computers first before it goes to the exchage. Brokers computers links direct with the exchange's designated computers like your networking computers.
If another software is working in the exchange (not so worried about out of it) that is capable of instructing the computers to block, stop, hang or move the prices, than some insider syndicate capable of inserting this program can rake in big multimillion dollars at everyone's disadvantage. It all involves a formula to instruct the computers at SGX.
An example of a program with this formula can actually work to your disadvantage:
If you market buy (the machine sells and executed) 10 lots at X and the visible bid queue B is greater than zero (meaning, should it still be there), then (B=0) meaning visible bid queue is to be withdrawn, AND those orders not ours, Sell them all , and then replace bid price at B minus 1 bid, and ask price as A minus 1.
The above is not a complete program, but it illustrates that when such aformula is executed with the buy action in the example, then you can see the screen prices, bid and asking prices change immediately.
I am not saying that SGX is having this unfair thing in their system, but this is always possible where money is to be made.
NOTE: I don't know much about computers and programing, and I might be wrong.
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machines have no feelings, while human traders can be swayed by emotions.
You may be right abt how the algorithms work, they are designed to corner the mkt. Is there still hope for ikan bilis like us?
Laulan ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 10:49) Posted:
For those who dont know what we are talking about, esp the newbies, our sotck market is run by a software program to facilitate transactions, much like your window programs to facilitate your work. The sgx program allows brokers to key in your trades and automatically match them with other's trades. Your trade goes to the brokers' computers first before it goes to the exchage. Brokers computers links direct with the exchange's designated computers like your networking computers.
If another software is working in the exchange (not so worried about out of it) that is capable of instructing the computers to block, stop, hang or move the prices, than some insider syndicate capable of inserting this program can rake in big multimillion dollars at everyone's disadvantage. It all involves a formula to instruct the computers at SGX.
An example of a program with this formula can actually work to your disadvantage:
If you market buy (the machine sells and executed) 10 lots at X and the visible bid queue B is greater than zero (meaning, should it still be there), then (B=0) meaning visible bid queue is to be withdrawn, AND those orders not ours, Sell them all , and then replace bid price at B minus 1 bid, and ask price as A minus 1.
The above is not a complete program, but it illustrates that when such aformula is executed with the buy action in the example, then you can see the screen prices, bid and asking prices change immediately.
I am not saying that SGX is having this unfair thing in their system, but this is always possible where money is to be made.
NOTE: I don't know much about computers and programing, and I might be wrong.
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you might be refering to this...
SGX seeks HFT growth with Reach upgrade
The latest part of the S$250 million (US$207.9 million) infrastructure upgrade for the Singapore Exchange (SGX) came online this week in the shape of the Reach, a new trading engine that SGX claims is the world’s fastest.
Despite some minor early teething troubles with unstable connections, the system is now up and running smoothly, though whether it will be a game changer for Singapore remains to be seen.
The Reach trading engine offers 10 times more capacity than the previous system and a latency of 90 microseconds. Its launch follows the opening of the SGX Data Centre and co-location services in April, and the elimination of the hour-and-a-half lunch break on 1 August.
Nels Friets, head of securities at SGX, sees Reach stimulating the kind of growth in electronic trading that the exchange has witnessed in derivatives.
“We estimate that high-frequency traders contribute about 30% to the volume of our derivatives market, from marginal levels three years ago. For our securities market (which is where Reach is operating) high-frequency trading (HFT) is marginal and we hope to see participation from these traders and other participants increasing in the months and years ahead.”
“The whole purpose of the upgrade and getting rid of the lunchtime break was to invite more liquidity into the market, including high-frequency traders,” suggests Josephine Kim, head of electronic trading in Singapore for Bank of America Merrill Lynch. “We have yet to see an increase in volumes but are expecting the impact to come over the longer-term rather than immediately.
“It’s such great marketing for SGX that Singapore is now number one in terms of speed, but we’re not really making use of it yet because the liquidity isn’t there,” she added.
New opportunities
But that liquidity may be on its way sooner rather than later, according Steffen Gemuenden, CEO of RTS, a supplier of trading technology, “We’re hearing from more of our international trader clients that they would like to trade Singapore - it’s become very attractive for them. The new Reach platform has increased capacity and reduced latency, giving the market more potential for growth. Our customers see opportunities for arbitrage between Singapore and other markets.”
He added, “They’re doing the right things with the data centre, co-location and more cooperation with other exchanges. And not just on the market, but with the Center for Financial Education – where RTS sponsors the software – that is used to train students, traders, and other market professionals to narrow the gap between click traders and the more sophisticated algorithmic traders.”
Particularly against the background of recent market turmoil, there is some concern from current market participants and the exchange, that an increase in HFT and fragmentation could spike volatility further.
“We have measures in place and are constantly improving these to ensure the market remains orderly at all times. As for fragmentation, our view is that as an exchange, we must try to meet customer needs,” says SGX’s Friets. “This is why we partnered Chi-X Global to offer Chi-East, an electronic crossing network for Hong Kong, Japanese and Singaporean securities from November 2010.”
Friets added that the exchange was also introducing measures such as circuit breakers to help maintain an orderly market. SGX has just closed its public consultation on circuit breakers and expects to have them in place by 2012.
In the meantime, participants are getting used to the new ultra high speeds on the market.
“While market depth has remained the same, because people have less time to react there are concerns from dealers that if there are any problems with orders, for example, they could have a significant impact on the market,” suggests BAML’s Kim.
However, speed is not the only issue. “SGX could do more to improve efficiency in the market and that would be more appealing to high-frequency traders than just increasing the speed. Singapore is still developing as a HFT centre and lags Japan and Hong Kong,” said Kim, whilst acknowledging it is moving in the right direction. “SGX has a long-term plan that it is executing. Reach and the elimination of the lunchtime break are steps along the way.”
Woohoo.... Fast and Furious....Vroom vroom....
Cheer
Laulan ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 10:49) Posted:
For those who dont know what we are talking about, esp the newbies, our sotck market is run by a software program to facilitate transactions, much like your window programs to facilitate your work. The sgx program allows brokers to key in your trades and automatically match them with other's trades. Your trade goes to the brokers' computers first before it goes to the exchage. Brokers computers links direct with the exchange's designated computers like your networking computers.
If another software is working in the exchange (not so worried about out of it) that is capable of instructing the computers to block, stop, hang or move the prices, than some insider syndicate capable of inserting this program can rake in big multimillion dollars at everyone's disadvantage. It all involves a formula to instruct the computers at SGX.
An example of a program with this formula can actually work to your disadvantage:
If you market buy (the machine sells and executed) 10 lots at X and the visible bid queue B is greater than zero (meaning, should it still be there), then (B=0) meaning visible bid queue is to be withdrawn, AND those orders not ours, Sell them all , and then replace bid price at B minus 1 bid, and ask price as A minus 1.
The above is not a complete program, but it illustrates that when such aformula is executed with the buy action in the example, then you can see the screen prices, bid and asking prices change immediately.
I am not saying that SGX is having this unfair thing in their system, but this is always possible where money is to be made.
NOTE: I don't know much about computers and programing, and I might be wrong.
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oh boy, this chimp must be a Greek
iPunter ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 10:47) Posted:
Today vely boling day...
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For those who dont know what we are talking about, esp the newbies, our sotck market is run by a software program to facilitate transactions, much like your window programs to facilitate your work. The sgx program allows brokers to key in your trades and automatically match them with other's trades. Your trade goes to the brokers' computers first before it goes to the exchage. Brokers computers links direct with the exchange's designated computers like your networking computers.
If another software is working in the exchange (not so worried about out of it) that is capable of instructing the computers to block, stop, hang or move the prices, than some insider syndicate capable of inserting this program can rake in big multimillion dollars at everyone's disadvantage. It all involves a formula to instruct the computers at SGX.
An example of a program with this formula can actually work to your disadvantage:
If you market buy (the machine sells and executed) 10 lots at X and the visible bid queue B is greater than zero (meaning, should it still be there), then (B=0) meaning visible bid queue is to be withdrawn, AND those orders not ours, Sell them all , and then replace bid price at B minus 1 bid, and ask price as A minus 1.
The above is not a complete program, but it illustrates that when such aformula is executed with the buy action in the example, then you can see the screen prices, bid and asking prices change immediately.
I am not saying that SGX is having this unfair thing in their system, but this is always possible where money is to be made.
NOTE: I don't know much about computers and programing, and I might be wrong.
Today vely boling day...
Security lapses on UBS side allows one of it's rogue traders (I forget the name, sounds like ah-bola or something and age is 31 IIRC) to perform unauthorized tradings which amounted to 2 billion losses.
Investors are more concerned if there are other losses which hasn't been surfaced due to these unauthorized dealings and not only just the 2 billion losses that has been reported.
:p
Gaecia ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 10:01) Posted:
You don't read news right to steer clear from confusion. Go to bloomberg or reuters, UBS has been making the headlines everyday..
stockmarketmind ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 09:56) Posted:
what happen to ubs? Can someone share?
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lol..
nice one, though i dont understand ur logic.. may be i am too noob
so ur if condition is true
louis001 ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 10:15) Posted:
IF I know so much so deep about computer programs,
THAN you don't know or understand what I meant and written here...
ELSE
IF you think you know so much so deep,
THAN obviously you will think other people know little about computer programs...
END-IF {....LOL...}
rotijai ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 09:59) Posted:
| obviously u know little about computer programs : |
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cool guys! always be the student of the market. Not one can beat the market, but we can put probability.
IF I know so much so deep about computer programs,
THAN you don't know or understand what I meant and written here...
ELSE
IF you think you know so much so deep,
THAN obviously you will think other people know little about computer programs...
END-IF {....LOL...}
rotijai ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 09:59) Posted:
obviously u know little about computer programs :)
louis001 ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 09:55) Posted:
Man bring computer to space, not otherwise..
Man write and fix computer programs, computer programs cannot beat man...
It is Man who beats Man....in playing the stock market game ....
Warning : However smart you are man , there is always another man smarter than you at the other side. |
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Go back to manual bidding... lol...
louis001 ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 10:05) Posted:
hahaha... when Stock market program is withdrawn/shut down...
game is over....even profitable and blue chips shares become useless, cannot buy/sell,
everyone is beaten... flat and down...SJ also gone.
iPunter ( Date: 19-Sep-2011 09:58) Posted:
There's only one who can beat the program...
It is the creator of the program...
And only by withdrawing the program...
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