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GIC and Temasek

CICI,  bank of India, Chian Construction Bk n BK of China were invested as well. Any mention on them?

victorian2      ( Date: 27-Feb-2009 11:43) Posted: Saw this post on wayangparty.com REMF on Fri, 27th Feb 2009 4:49 am  Any investigative journalism to grill which team of analysts at GIC and TH recommended “buy” in UBS, Barclay, Merrill Lynch and CitiCorp? Is the “buy” order thru’ all those Western “old boy network” - Western guanxi - that took GIC and TH for a ride acoompanied by much guttural laughters and champagne toasting in boardrooms all over the West? Certainly, heads must roll, all S$58-billion and S$50-billion worth of it.

 

1. 
   
   Saw this post on wayangparty.com
2. 
   
   REMF on Fri, 27th Feb 2009 4:49 am 
   
   
   
   Any investigative journalism to grill which team of analysts at GIC and TH recommended “buy” in UBS, Barclay, Merrill Lynch and CitiCorp?
   
   Is the “buy” order thru’ all those Western “old boy network” - Western guanxi - that took GIC and TH for a ride acoompanied by much guttural laughters and champagne toasting in boardrooms all over the West?
   
   Certainly, heads must roll, all S$58-billion and S$50-billion worth of it.

 

1. 
   
   Saw this post on wayangparty.com....It's a sham how Ministry of Finance try to cover/damage control for Temasek
2. 
   
   Tan on Fri, 27th Feb 2009 3:04 am 
3. 
   
   
   Here’s how some creative reporting was done to lesses the looks of the loss to 31%
   
   1. Loss as of 31st November 08 rather than Feb 09 when the 31% loss was reported in the press followed by Ho Ching’s resignation.
   Price then in Nov 2008 vs present price. Use Google Finance. you can see all the prices
   
   Citi : $8 vs $2 now
   Barclays : 169 vs 113 now
   BOA : $16 vs 5 now
   UBS 12 vs 10 now
   standchart: 843 vs 680 now
   
   the list goes one…….for both Temasek and GIC
   
   2. Temasek factored in the sale of power plants which had huge profits as cost (asset on balance sheet) was low ie 30yrs ago vs sales price in 2009 so showed huge profits. he says the loss of the power plants were really a waste as the pricing could have been better but desperate & made a turnaround when announced they would not sell. This one is really a betrayal cos all our power gen cos are now foreign owned and govt will have no control over pricing anymore. The people will be the one to suffer which is what happen in the last quarter when electricity just shot up 25% eventhough oil was collapsing.
   
   3. Other assets in the balance sheets are not marked to market unlike banks who have to do them quarterly hence many assets are overpriced now relative to current pricing.
   
   The losses are at least 50% if not more. You may want to check out the Temasek report.
   
   basically…….there is very little transparency and She has no regrets!!!!!!

 

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20090225/tap-aig-aia-c3bb44c.html

• Why AIG is willing to sell 'crown jewel'

teeth53      ( Date: 26-Feb-2009 21:11) Posted: Sales of AIG's Asian crown jewel 'look set to fail over pricing...' as AXA n HSBC look set to abandoned the bidding process.... Bidders including AXA of France, HSBC, China life Insurance, Bank of China, Prudential..UK, Zurich Re, Swiss Reinsurance, Temasek Holding alongside HSBC or with Prudential, reuter reported remain three left including Temasek...unless they is a change of heart  in those pricing...say to be in range of US$20 Billion to US$40 Billion, while bidders bid no more then US$15Billion. Key sticking point is to allow AIG to return or repay back to US govment up to US$100 Billion. source from Reuter

 

Sales of AIG's Asian crown jewel 'look set to fail over pricing...' as AXA n HSBC look set to abandoned the bidding process....

Bidders including AXA of France, HSBC, China life Insurance, Bank of China, Prudential..UK, Zurich Re, Swiss Reinsurance, Temasek Holding alongside HSBC or with Prudential, reuter reported remain three left including Temasek...unless they is a change of heart  in those pricing...say to be in range of US$20 Billion to US$40 Billion, while bidders bid no more then US$15Billion.

Key sticking point is to allow AIG to return or repay back to US govment up to US$100 Billion.

source from Reuter

 

Ha ha, AK hope that I could live that long to see them make double.

 

You r being too conservative, what i heard in kopi tian conversation, the amount is ($S150B) ! After seeing Lim Hwee Hua spoke in the debate, she nearly spoke the figure !

teeth53      ( Date: 18-Feb-2009 19:20) Posted: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20090217/tap-singapore-invest-gic-swf-finance-eco-06f3cb7.html In late 2007 and early last year GIC injected billions of dollars into Swiss bank UBS as well as US banking giant Citigroup, both of which suffered massive losses from US subprime. Loss on the investment portfolio last year is estimated at around 45 billion to 50 billion," one of two people familiar with the GIC situation told Dow Jones (teeth53: Posted:20Aug2007 lower interest rate and so on....to ride out over this dark cloud hanging all over this world is trying to bufff & trying to ensure ppl's all over that this storm will blow over.come on, of course we will, not before riding into stage 3. We are facing at the word, confident right in our face and in our sub-conscious mind. scary 1st credit issue, then credit squeeze, next credit crunches, what next ?, credit melt... Posted: 25-Dec-2008 teeth53 thot...Six months ago....and the credit crisis  and it down turn warning has long been posted more then a year back.....hmmm, never learn there lesson is Prologis, so is GIC, is still very RICH to with stand this coming prolonger recession for over d next several years. and finally fallen on deaf ears, since Aug 20, 2007 isit we so helpless or they R so unwilling to b told.!

 

Looks like the worse is still seeping through...

Using past yardsticks and expectations is useless against something unprecedented...

This is a grand "chokong's" depression..... But maybe even your grand "chokong" may be shocked with it...

 

Business Times - 24 Feb 2009


US stake in Citi may reach 40%

Conversion of preferred shares into ordinary equity would severely dilute other shareholders

By CONRAD TAN

(SINGAPORE) The US government is in talks with Citigroup to convert its preferred shares in the bank into ordinary shares, a move that would severely dilute the stakes of other investors including the Government of Singapore Investment Corp (GIC).

The plan could see the US government owning as much as 40 per cent of Citi's common stock, The Wall Street Journal reported yesterday, citing unnamed sources.

'GIC has no comment,' a spokeswoman said, when asked what impact such a development would have on GIC's US$6.88 billion investment in Citi's preferred stock.

Citi executives met US regulators at the weekend to discuss a plan in which the government and other preferred shareholders could convert up to US$75 billion of preferred shares into common stock, according to the Financial Times. Besides GIC and the US Treasury, the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority and the Kuwait Investment Authority also own preferred shares in Citi.

A deal has not been confirmed, nor have the terms of any potential conversion been disclosed, but these investors are likely to suffer huge paper losses if their preferred shares are converted to ordinary stock.

At last Friday's closing price of US$1.95, Citi's entire ordinary share capital was worth just US$10.6 billion - less than a quarter of the US$45 billion in preferred shares held by the US Treasury alone.

This means that any ordinary shares that preferred shareholders receive if they do convert their holdings are likely to be worth far less at current market prices than their original investment. Existing ordinary shareholders would suffer massive dilution.

But the government is unlikely to seize control of Citi through an outright nationalisation, the Financial Times reported, quoting people close to the situation.

A joint statement yesterday by the US Treasury and other government agencies said that 'banks should remain in private hands' but did little to quash reports that the government could raise its stake in Citi.

Instead, the statement focused on plans announced earlier to subject major US banks to stress tests starting on Feb 25 to determine if they have enough capital to withstand losses as the economy worsens. The government would then inject more capital as required, if the banks are unable to raise it privately.

'Any government capital will be in the form of mandatory convertible preferred shares, which would be converted into common equity shares only as needed over time,' the statement said. The preferred shares bought in earlier government injections can also be exchanged for the mandatory convertible preferred shares, which could then be converted to common stock.

Fears that ordinary shareholders in Citi and other major US banks, including Bank of America (BOA), could be wiped out by a government takeover have sent their share prices plummeting in recent days. Citi's shares plunged 44 per cent last week, while BOA's shares fell 32 per cent. But their shares rose at the start of trading yesterday in the United States as nationalisation fears receded.

Temasek Holdings now owns some 188.8 million shares or a 3 per cent stake in BOA, after the bank bought Merrill Lynch.

Investors worry that banks such as Citi and BOA are likely to face further massive losses on bad loans as the recession wears on. That has made it difficult for the banks to raise new capital by issuing ordinary shares to private investors, since they would bear any losses ahead of preferred shareholders.

Converting the government's preferred shares into ordinary equity would boost the banks' core capital - which includes retained profits and ordinary equity but not preferred stock - without the need to inject more money from the public purse. That would make it unnecessary for the government to seek approval from lawmakers for new bailout funds amid growing public fury over the use of taxpayers' money to save large banks.

Yesterday, Citi chief executive Vikram Pandit wrote to staff seeking to reassure them of the bank's fate. He did not deny reports that the US government could raise its stake in the bank, but cited statements by Treasury and White House officials last Friday suggesting that the government does not intend to nationalise the bank. 'I remain very confident in Citi's prospects and business position around the world,' said Mr Pandit.

But US Treasury spokesman Isaac Baker said on Sunday that the Treasury was open to converting its preferred shares into common stock 'if the institution and its regulator believe it would promote the long-term stability of that institution, and if we believe it's in the best interest of long-term stability of our economy and financial system', Reuters reported.

 

Gigantic/Massive global divestment by US financial institution seems still in process.

 

CITI is now worth US$1.61 cents, down from US$29.00 when GIsick bot into it January last year 2008. at US$6.88 Billiob US dollars. CITI is value at US$10 Bil compare to DBS $18 Bil and is now 5th largest US bank. It CITI chief now asking for more money fron GIC to invest by converting it convertable shares to common stock...Ten times more then current traded price. Look like we can likely have a less then recoverable chances and even has to wait very long, very long term liao...ASK LYY HOW NOW..?. I still remember several mths back still boosting got chances must vest

teeth53      ( Date: 22-Feb-2009 21:44) Posted: If this do not scare those few, then i also do not know what is more scary then this.. http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/02/gone-in-60-days-citi-and-bank-of-america-wont-live-to-see-may/ If there’s one thing our readers must know....Nice posting Scotty.  teeth53      ( Date: 22-Feb-2009 21:29) Posted: We will, not before riding into stage 3 We are riding into Stage Four...Credit Melting.. What next..from our beloved chief..?. (healing for purple color)

 

If this do not scare those few, then i also do not know what is more scary then this..

http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/02/gone-in-60-days-citi-and-bank-of-america-wont-live-to-see-may/

If there’s one thing our readers must know....Nice posting Scotty. 

teeth53      ( Date: 22-Feb-2009 21:29) Posted: We will, not before riding into stage 3 We are riding into Stage Four...Credit Melting.. What next..from our beloved chief..?. (healing for purple color)

 

We will, not before riding into stage 3

We are riding into Stage Four...Credit Melting..

What next..from our beloved chief..?. (healing for purple color)

 

What will happen to CITI and BoA in May 2009, we cannot do anything liao...better as Mr Lee and Ms Ho or even Ms Lim....?.

http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/02/gone-in-60-days-citi-and-bank-of-america-wont-live-to-see-may/

If there’s one thing our readers know, it’s that ChartingStocks.net has made some bold calls in the past which seemed controversial and highly unlikely at the time. Our January 2007 post warned of the coming stock market crash at a time when the market was making new all time highs. In February 2007 we warned about the breakdown of the brokerage stocks and singled out Bear Stearns (Trading at $160), Merrill Lynch (Trading at $87), and Morgan Stanley (Trading at 78). In September 2007, we warned of a selloff in the coming weeks. The market peak and decline began 4 weeks later.

teeth53      ( Date: 22-Feb-2009 21:17) Posted: What will happen to CITI and BoA in Mat 2009, we can do anything liao...better as Mr Lee and Ms Ho or even Ms Lim....?.

 

What will happen to CITI and BoA in Mat 2009, we can do anything liao...better as Mr Lee and Ms Ho or even Ms Lim....?.

 

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20090217/tap-singapore-invest-gic-swf-finance-eco-06f3cb7.html

In late 2007 and early last year GIC injected billions of dollars into Swiss bank UBS as well as US banking giant Citigroup, both of which suffered massive losses from US subprime.

Loss on the investment portfolio last year is estimated at around 45 billion to 50 billion," one of two people familiar with the GIC situation told Dow Jones

(teeth53: Posted:20Aug2007 lower interest rate and so on....to ride out over this dark cloud hanging all over this world is trying to bufff & trying to ensure ppl's all over that this storm will blow over.come on, of course we will, not before riding into stage 3. We are facing at the word, confident right in our face and in our sub-conscious mind. scary
1st credit issue, then credit squeeze, next credit crunches, what next ?, credit melt...

Posted: 25-Dec-2008 teeth53 thot...Six months ago....and the credit crisis  and it down turn warning has long been posted more then a year back.....hmmm, never learn there lesson is Prologis, so is GIC, is still very RICH to with stand this coming prolonger recession for over d next several years. and finally fallen on deaf ears, since Aug 20, 2007 isit we so helpless or they R so unwilling to b told.!

 

Taiwan now is officially into recession

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20090218/tbs-taiwan-economy-growth-710a28b.html

Taiwan in recession

AFP - 47 minutes ago

TAIPEI (AFP) - - Taiwan plunged into recession as the economy contracted a record 8.36 percent in the three months to December due to the global economic meltdown, the government said Wednesday

 

Me too..lost a few n win a few..balance overall LOST & a few is left in cold storage...so as a result lesson learn...no further investing for at least two years liao (no money to buy or sell..one, two lot okk...lah). I sold some by sell into strength n those cannot be save left it in cold storage liao. Just watching this day...buy that idea...problem is we are sort of been treated like little childrens.

Most recently NTUC Income goes d other way up, 14% in growth as compare with industries norm of 3% said it CEO. Mr Tan Suee Chieh who took over from Mr Tan kin lian 

Farmer      ( Date: 15-Feb-2009 18:43) Posted: Hohoho! That's a saying by the expert that in the current financial crisis, those who lost 50% of their portfolio holding can be consider as "break even" in normal times, and if one lost only 33%, then he's consider making some money liao! Buy this idea? My view is that: most investors who stay invested throughout this era of the worst financial crisis since Sg's independent so far will lose money regardless of your portfolio holding with the exception of overweighting the Gold/Silver. GIC/Temasek as a SWF and long term investors of our reserve cannot affort to overweight on certain instruments or not invest and stay dry with cash consider the hugh amount of  money and its complexity are involve. Small fish like us can do otherwise but even many value investors lost money too. I'm still down ~33% in total on my portfolio holding since this crisis started although I took the drastic step of cutting lost on some of the "questionable" companies I once hold. But one grave/unfortunate mistake by Temasek is that they're over-weighting on banks, else their losses will be much reduce. I think GIC would have done better consider its more conservative apporach.

 

Hohoho! That's a saying by the expert that in the current financial crisis, those who lost 50% of their portfolio holding can be consider as "break even" in normal times, and if one lost only 33%, then he's consider making some money liao! Buy this idea?

My view is that: most investors who stay invested throughout this era of the worst financial crisis since Sg's independent so far will lose money regardless of your portfolio holding with the exception of overweighting the Gold/Silver. GIC/Temasek as a SWF and long term investors of our reserve cannot affort to overweight on certain instruments or not invest and stay dry with cash consider the hugh amount of  money and its complexity are involve. Small fish like us can do otherwise but even many value investors lost money too. I'm still down ~33% in total on my portfolio holding since this crisis started although I took the drastic step of cutting lost on some of the "questionable" companies I once hold.

But one grave/unfortunate mistake by Temasek is that they're over-weighting on banks, else their losses will be much reduce. I think GIC would have done better consider its more conservative apporach.

 

Botak (UOB), is not welcome to go on board this two SWFs...anyway they are very likely on par with DBS...neck to neck in this race..eg DBS took over HK 4th largest bank...here botak tookover S'pore 4th largest bank as well...both isit the same amount to take over...?. in billion of dollars

DBS took over HK bank...less to earn as they declare their earning result, while UOB took over OUB bank..more to earn as it has to account for share holders earning, let see their earning result...Akan datang...soon.

teeth53      ( Date: 15-Feb-2009 18:26) Posted: Trouble here is ...we are train to be too honest to d tune of been kena in believeing those angmo...like good eg Madoff...and when one or two say YES..the rest cannot say NO and if...A big if we depend just on one man, then we are dead liao...luck is with us as we still has a as many top talented 1st class rated running outside of the inner circle...to prop up a few "Yue Luo Yue Hu Too" type teeth53      ( Date: 15-Feb-2009 16:56) Posted: Out there and right here in Singapore...there are many top graded people's who is alway around...Just to names a few..Like SIA...proven very solid organisation even in this recession, Capital land, Singtel, MAS board, SGX board, POSBank, NTUC Fairprice Chairman, we also has Mr Khaw..from health who has proven to nurse back Singapore govt restructure hospital to it healthy position today. All no easy task, all plan for long term, great mind, overseeing their respective portfolios. Most recently, Mr Koh is tap for his qualitative experience, he is one n only one among so many heavy weight...cannot do much even if he wanted to say no...I do understand..