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Citigroup is back on right footing,5-10yr recovery

Is this the last fund injection?

There are now many shares in the market now.

Is the share consolidation in the pipeline?

we never know what is the true and complete picture.

 

The ang mo hv lost their creditability.

 

Wat happen if they put it to sleep.

 

Here is an article from Yahoo-AP.  Our PM Lee is in Thailand and have to fly in by military transport...

Titled: Singapore PM warns of lengthy global slump

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/ap/20090228/tbs-as-asean-singapore-global-crisis-3c8dc0d.html

A cut out of his speech :

Lee said fixing ailing banks in the U.S. and some major European nations will require politically difficult and costly decisions such as nationalization, massive injections of capital, or governments buying the banks' bad assets. All involve nationalizing the banks "one way or another," he said.

 

One way or another ?? then why still convert the share. Does he play share on his free time ??

BT even said T and GIC cut loss......was 80% loss, after convert 1.6B loss.....WOW....

 

lets do a simple math.

 billions they took from US gov vs make tiny profit say starting from 5 -10 years.

will still put them in negative vs the amount of billion take from US gov.

so to pay off the and be in real profit will take them 200-400 years or if another subprime profit

turn up maybe 50 years.... consolidation is best.

 

Citi group and BOA will not exist in 2 years.

most likely nationalized or insolvent. Their mounting losses on big bets they made and made them zomby

banks which will drain the US of billions and billions dry. so best is to put them to sleep.

my friend bought citi at $20 per share and many betting citi will recover to the peak.

too bad they R WRONG! bye bye to their saving!  make long bets on bear market most liikely to be wrong.  make long bets on bull markets u r likely to be correct.

 

Feb 11, 2009. Mr Pandit. CEO of citigroup...It has started top down by voluntary been pay oni a dollar a year in salary and no bonus till we return to profitablity...His goal to return to profitablity ASAP as he told his board of directors.

He is expected to keep his job and answer-able to new board of directors, including independent majority of directors. 

dcang84      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 20:44) Posted: The problem is citi cannot afford to pay the 7% dividend to holders of its preference shares and that includes GIC. Moreover they have to meet the stress test requirements set by Geitner and company. I do agree that conversion to common stock cannot be a good thing as the risk has just gone up by afew notches but I suppose its the lesser of the two evils. Whatever it is, GIC look look like d**bf**ks. Immediately after conversion we are over a billion dollars poorer. elfinchilde      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 13:29) Posted: http://elfinchilde.blogspot.com/2009/02/there-are-fools-and-then-there-are.html I do not, personally, in any way, see how the conversion into common stock is a good thing. It'd have been infinitely preferable to me for GIC to write off the entire investment as a bad one, and start doing REAL investing. Into our s'pore companies. Instead of being taken for a sucker ride by the Americans, as with Merrill/Temasek in the past.

 

We surrender our triumph card. If subsequently Citi still can't make it, show hand liao.

Many corporate giant after getting d initial aid fr gov, now they need more as they suffered losses again. Santa Abama, chialat liao.

 

Lehman cause so much pain and trouble when it went down.....they are not going to let another titan go...Bankrupt...No,  Nationalise.....Sure...

It is bad if pple call you a SUCKER.......to be called a SUCKER AGAIN is worse.....

And did they employ Mr Goodyear because he is call Goodyear ???......what if he is called Mr Badyear or Deadfish or something like that ???

Did Mr Goodyear OK the deal ?? Any volunteer to write to ST Forum ?? Wonder if that guy who lock up our National Library will fire up the savo.....according to my friend who dig up the internet universe....he is some kind of investment guru and rather or very rich leh.......

 

cantongacs      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 21:10) Posted: The ang mo is too smart, cast big net to empty all preference share holders before nationalise it? dcang84      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 20:44) Posted: The problem is citi cannot afford to pay the 7% dividend to holders of its preference shares and that includes GIC. Moreover they have to meet the stress test requirements set by Geitner and company. I do agree that conversion to common stock cannot be a good thing as the risk has just gone up by afew notches but I suppose its the lesser of the two evils. Whatever it is, GIC look look like d**bf**ks. Immediately after conversion we are over a billion dollars poorer.

 

The ang mo is too smart, cast big net to empty all preference share holders before nationalise it?

dcang84      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 20:44) Posted: The problem is citi cannot afford to pay the 7% dividend to holders of its preference shares and that includes GIC. Moreover they have to meet the stress test requirements set by Geitner and company. I do agree that conversion to common stock cannot be a good thing as the risk has just gone up by afew notches but I suppose its the lesser of the two evils. Whatever it is, GIC look look like d**bf**ks. Immediately after conversion we are over a billion dollars poorer. elfinchilde      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 13:29) Posted: http://elfinchilde.blogspot.com/2009/02/there-are-fools-and-then-there-are.html I do not, personally, in any way, see how the conversion into common stock is a good thing. It'd have been infinitely preferable to me for GIC to write off the entire investment as a bad one, and start doing REAL investing. Into our s'pore companies. Instead of being taken for a sucker ride by the Americans, as with Merrill/Temasek in the past.

 

The problem is citi cannot afford to pay the 7% dividend to holders of its preference shares and that includes GIC. Moreover they have to meet the stress test requirements set by Geitner and company. I do agree that conversion to common stock cannot be a good thing as the risk has just gone up by afew notches but I suppose its the lesser of the two evils. Whatever it is, GIC look look like d**bf**ks. Immediately after conversion we are over a billion dollars poorer.

elfinchilde      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 13:29) Posted: http://elfinchilde.blogspot.com/2009/02/there-are-fools-and-then-there-are.html I do not, personally, in any way, see how the conversion into common stock is a good thing. It'd have been infinitely preferable to me for GIC to write off the entire investment as a bad one, and start doing REAL investing. Into our s'pore companies. Instead of being taken for a sucker ride by the Americans, as with Merrill/Temasek in the past.

 

tan on Sat, 28th Feb 2009 5:33 pm 

My concern was the conversion would be at $24. At $3.25. OK, there is much better chance for GIC to make money in the next 5yrs. It is the existing shareholders that get really diluted down.

That scenerio of huge dilution effectivly kills their investment value as there are more shares in the common ordinary pool. That’s why it’s called dilution. TEMASEK’s Barclays, Meryll’s investment is of SUCH. HUGE DILUTION hence HUGE MASSIVE LOSSES.

Other equally screwed up investments, ABC Learning (coy had HUGE DEBTS/gearing)…yet still invest $400m & coy died several mmonths later. Shin Corp, OSIM’s joint venture US acqusition, another 150m, didn’t cash out of the China bank shares when they were super high….(Warren Buffet sold out 1st).

That’s why, compared to Tony Tan’s qualification as a BANKER, HO CHING is a DUMB, INCOMPETENT and TOTALLY UNQUALIFIED engineer(no disrespect to engineers) to play with our reserves.
Talk about Meritocracy.

Evidence ???
Look at the financial statements of Temasek,
In the last 3 yrs, 2006, 2007, 2008..two years after she was CEO, cash invested outside equlled almost $70b of which last yr was the max $32b. It is damn obvious MOF had to pump money in and Temasek probably issued Bonds too.

The Cashflow statements of 2006 -2008 shows evidence of wilfull investing at the market’s peak years of 06 and 07. A clear departure of the conservative investment style… maatch with the cashflow in the years before Ho Ching.

As I still said, she mess up and there should be serious accountability…not just “I have no regrets”…which mere mortal could say that unless she’s the wife of the Prime Minister. Sick!

 

don't miss the boat, fire my first round of bullets at $1.41..

so, that's 130% gain while you reach GIC purchased price, cool eh? drop more? buy  more... next target $1.

CWQuah      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 16:09) Posted: I could buy this at $1.55 leh. :-P.

 

1 -2 yr..any times..so long someone is very rich, very rich to buy..see no problem even if China SWF's is interested...even Arab can effort to buy....

jackjames      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 16:05) Posted: folks, get the picture right, GIC price is $3.25, forget about $28 ++ price..... just forget about GIC purchase in January 2008, it is all meaningless... Just read GIC bought Citibank shares at $3.25... I personally think this is such a beautiful deal... GIC rocks !!!! and now, Tony needs not to say to wait for 10 years... just 1 or 2 years easily to breakeven ....

 

I could buy this at $1.55 leh. :-P.

 

folks, get the picture right, GIC price is $3.25, forget about $28 ++ price..... just forget about GIC purchase in January 2008, it is all meaningless...

Just read GIC bought Citibank shares at $3.25... I personally think this is such a beautiful deal...

GIC rocks !!!! and now, Tony needs not to say to wait for 10 years... just 1 or 2 years easily to breakeven .... 

 

As for Citigroup to survival as a bank. For more info...Click below.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200902272218DOWJONESDJONLINE000990_FORTUNE5.htm

But owners of Citigroup's publicly traded preferred shares won't get as sweet a deal. They will be converted at an as-yet-undetermined premium to the market price. On Friday, the bulk of Citigroup's different classes of publicly traded preferred shares closed at less than 40% of their original values, with most settling between $8 and $10.

Citigroup didn't explain in its press release the uneven treatment of its preferred shareholders, which essentially treats some investors based on the book value of their holdings and others based on the market value. But one reason for the complicated deal structure could be that the bank wants to keep its funding options open. At the current depressed common stock price - Citigroup shares closed at $1.50 after touching a fresh 52-week-low on Friday - issuing new common stock is almost certainly out of the question.

By protecting buyers of privately placed shares - like the U.S. and Singaporean governments, as well as Saudi Arabian Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal - Citigroup may be keeping its funding options open if it needs to tap markets for capital again, since it will be showing its willingness to take care of investors who agree to take a large-sized risk on the shaky bank. Unlike with Fannie and Freddie,"

A Citigroup spokeswoman declined to comment.

While the deal may be good news for the bank's prospects, it has some holders of its publicly traded preferred shares hopping mad. They feel like Citigroup has given them short shrift

 

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20090227/tts-us-politics-economy-obama-budget-972e412.html  (teeth53 thot: can see his hair is balck for now...)

The plan includes more than 600 billion dollars over 10 years for a "down payment" on healthcare reform and a similar annual sum for defense, and encompasses Obama's drive to end the worst economic crisis since the 1930s.

"This budget is an honest accounting of where we are and where we intend to go," Obama said at the White House, in an implied swipe at the financial disclosure methods of the administration of his predecessor, George W. Bush.

"There are some hard choices that lie ahead," the president said, formally unveiling a budget which assumes major cost savings from a planned drawdown of the US garrison in Iraq, which currently costs 170 billion dollars a year.

"We need to be honest with ourselves about what costs are being racked up, because that's how we'll come to grips with the hard choices that lie ahead," Obama said.

teeth53      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 14:38) Posted: That's truth under 8yr of Bushes error.....Obama wanted to correct those error within his 1st term, so he can go on to next five years, so is his (Obama kakis)...look like if he carry on his effort..he can make it throught next term. CWQuah      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 14:12) Posted: Citi won't collapse. Feds learnt the hard way from Lehman Bros. BUT, with the kind of legislation reviews on the financial industry Obama may want to look at, don't expect a quick recovery within 5yrs. Anyway, I thought the Citi saga brings to mind a very funny insight - never buy anything an AngMo tries to sell you.

 

That's truth under 8yr of Bushes error.....Obama wanted to correct those error within his 1st term, so he can go on to next five years, so is his (Obama kakis)...look like if he carry on his effort..he can make it throught next term.

CWQuah      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 14:12) Posted: Citi won't collapse. Feds learnt the hard way from Lehman Bros. BUT, with the kind of legislation reviews on the financial industry Obama may want to look at, don't expect a quick recovery within 5yrs. Anyway, I thought the Citi saga brings to mind a very funny insight - never buy anything an AngMo tries to sell you.

 

Citi won't collapse. Feds learnt the hard way from Lehman Bros. BUT, with the kind of legislation reviews on the financial industry Obama may want to look at, don't expect a quick recovery within 5yrs.

Anyway, I thought the Citi saga brings to mind a very funny insight - never buy anything an AngMo tries to sell you.








 

 

 

For GIC to convert its preferred shares at lower pricing, at US$3.25 per share than its original invested price of last Jan ,  or at US$26.35ct as for last year 2008. (Averaging down it losses from 80% to 24% or US$1.67 billion) that is based on last Thursday's closing price of US$2.49 cents.

GIC will however lost it 7% dividend from it preferred shares or US$482 miilion a year.
(GIC is not be putting in more $$$ this round)

As for us...We got nothings. It's well known our retiring eventually will rise, thus enable maturing baby booming age (1946- 1965) still got plenty of spending power..Taxes will come immediately after all when market is going strong, while maintaining a balance between those very rch and those very poor...How Obama is more or less is focus on middle class... 

Obama's middle class budget for socio-ecnomic experiment is worth watching by Asia... Stating net worth of the top 1% of US households was already bigger than that of the bottom 90%.

elfinchilde      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 13:41) Posted: sigh. the trouble is that you gotta buy low, and not buy a dead duck. anyhow, not that citizens have a say in the running of the country anyway, we're not elite enough. whahah. :P see how it plays out lor. no choice also. all i know is, be prepared for CPF retirement age to be raised, higher limits, and more taxes in future. the money's got to come from somewhere afterall.

 

sigh. the trouble is that you gotta buy low, and not buy a dead duck. anyhow, not that citizens have a say in the running of the country anyway, we're not elite enough. whahah. :P

see how it plays out lor. no choice also. all i know is, be prepared for CPF retirement age to be raised, higher limits, and more taxes in future. the money's got to come from somewhere afterall.