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GIC and Temasek

teeth53 thot: SAD to know. You look at all the big-name banks that have gone down, misjudged the situation, ruined their careers," he said. "How could we have known this was the extent of the damage? teeth53 thot: We has put up very early warning in ShareJunction and also in Channelnewsasia/discussion went un-heal.

Those Angmo need not have to even bluff us..citing and beliving Citi bank as world no-1 greatest bank in shares value at US$277.2 billion or peak at US$55.70ct (Citi ranking has crashed to 184 in world bank ranking value at US$5.6 billion or just US1.02ct), oredi convinced our beloved chief...MM Lee, 85, who as PM of S'pore btw 1959 to 1990, received his Rotarian award for his leadership that lifted lives of it people and tranform S'porean into today 1st World standard.

(teeth53: Beginning of recovery is only 2yrs away, another few yrs to slip upward B4 it peak. This year US consumers is dead.FEARFUL.., so year-end may make a small show of force nor it can make a come back.

We have yet to account for UBS losses..!!!! It took GIC Chief investment Officer, Ng Kok Siong to realized, explained that due to the challenging economic climate, "the profitability of US banks is likely to be impaired in the next two years".


1st: Under estimated Sub-prime credit crises extention into US housing woes, 2nd: underminding consumers confident and to major extention of 3rd: un-covering too many angmo worlds greatest cheaters in bank products, 4th: very good example like Lehman, Madoff's, AIG and Citi offering a 7% yearly yield. We are at 4th stage..of credit meting....SAD, very sad not to know it, teeth53 thot.

 

Two year away.......Ya. teeth53 thot

CapitaLand: Too early to bottom fish
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teeth53 Supreme	Posted: 04-Mar-2009 15:49       Contact teeth53          *  Quote this Post!
x 0 x 0 * Alert Admin	U believe in it..U buy /sell and do not hold the script. Can only buy and keep if it fall <2/- with money to spare..Be prepare for more volatile mkts at this point in times, teeth53 wishws all happy investing...Ya, consideration must goes to STI trading lower. teeth53      ( Date: 04-Mar-2009 15:44) Posted: It's all about timing, having such price to invest...oni with limited amount only....cos it not bottoming yet....<$1.80 a go buy >$2/- sell Capitaland    Last:1.95   Vol:38433k    +0.1 Posted:03Dec2008   Both IR operator is asking for delay in their opening....Y..?. Money problem, high construction cost, Bank anyhow credit lending problem..all due to Sub-prime and global recession and even if opening is due..wrong time as well. U believe in it..U buy /sell and do not hold the script. Can only buy and keep if it fall <2/- with money to spare..Be prepare for more volatile mkts at this point in times. Beginning of recovery is only 2yrs away, another few yrs to slip upward B4 it peak (chiong) another few yr later.. teeth53 just sharing my thot and trading experience MM Lee confident US can revive economy http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/393735/1/.html By Channel NewsAsia's HK Bureau Chief Roland Lim | Posted: 02 December 2008 2300 hrs

teeth53      ( Date: 06-Mar-2009 19:43) Posted: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20090304/tbs-singapore-leekuanyew-a5a65c6.html "How could we have known this was the extent of the damage? (teeth53: 1st warning shot is sometimes beginning of Jan/Feb 2007, next 2nd warning shot sometimes in July/Aug 2007, then followed by many, many raising red flag by Nov/Dec 2007).  (Thot by d way who career is ruined, including my...Ya.) We are riding into Stage Four...Credit Melting.. MM Lee said GIC bought "too early" into global banks such as Citigroup <C.N> and UBS <U)BSN.VX>, which were both hammered by the financial meltdown that quickened in the second half of 2008. "How could we have known this was the extent of the damage? You look at all the big-name banks that have gone down, misjudged the situation, ruined their careers," he said. "When the market fell, we went into UBS and Citi. But we went in too early. That is part of the ride." GIC last week converted its $6.88 billion worth of Citigroup preference shares into common stock at a price of S$3.25 a share to shore up the embattled U.S. lender, realising in the process a loss of around half its investment. Analysts estimated that the value of the fund was around $300 billion a year ago, although GIC has only said it manages well over $100 billion. For a factbox on GIC,

 

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20090304/tbs-singapore-leekuanyew-a5a65c6.html

"How could we have known this was the extent of the damage? (teeth53: 1st warning shot is sometimes beginning of Jan/Feb 2007, next 2nd warning shot sometimes in July/Aug 2007, then followed by many, many raising red flag by Nov/Dec 2007).

 (Thot by d way who career is ruined, including my...Ya.) We are riding into Stage Four...Credit Melting..

MM Lee said GIC bought "too early" into global banks such as Citigroup <C.N> and UBS <U)BSN.VX>, which were both hammered by the financial meltdown that quickened in the second half of 2008.

"How could we have known this was the extent of the damage? You look at all the big-name banks that have gone down, misjudged the situation, ruined their careers," he said.

"When the market fell, we went into UBS and Citi. But we went in too early. That is part of the ride."

GIC last week converted its $6.88 billion worth of Citigroup preference shares into common stock at a price of S$3.25 a share to shore up the embattled U.S. lender, realising in the process a loss of around half its investment.

Analysts estimated that the value of the fund was around $300 billion a year ago, although GIC has only said it manages well over $100 billion. For a factbox on GIC,

 

Ha ha, u will not surprise. The new blood steps in Tamasick, breaking news of interested to acquire stake in AIA. Double or break game?

cskoh1008      ( Date: 01-Mar-2009 00:22) Posted: who is right or wrong is pretty meaningless right now.  The question is how long will GIC be able to recoup back the high investment that have already erroded so much right now. I agree that our government should put their monies with our home grown companies and help them to expand offshore. Not too long ago, our gov put monies with the Thais, then the Indonesians and whats next??  I hope history will not repeat itself any sooner. Stay with the fundamentals.

 

who is right or wrong is pretty meaningless right now.  The question is how long will GIC be able to recoup back the high investment that have already erroded so much right now. I agree that our government should put their monies with our home grown companies and help them to expand offshore.

Not too long ago, our gov put monies with the Thais, then the Indonesians and whats next??  I hope history will not repeat itself any sooner.

Stay with the fundamentals.

 

 

 

 

Pity d lady ah, luck is not at her side, just because  of d Yangki. Investment left n right also kena.

There are reasons n foreseen implication why she suddenly stepping down, without any prewarning, not a tradition. Heng, if not, she rcv more bigger fingers. Angmo big size, can tahan lah, ha as he is new here, less impact. AK wild guesses only loh.

 

Comparing Lee n Tan with Dana n Ho Ching..No fight lehh..

jackjames      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 16:08) Posted: Temasek is the one in trouble now buying common shares.... Temasek vs GIC... GIC wins straights all the way..

 

Temasek is the one in trouble now buying common shares....

Temasek vs GIC...

GIC wins straights all the way..

 

This is pure speculation traded done on everyday trading, not for such SWF's. Such prices is only good for day traders and remisers and brokers earning n it reflect on traded volume...Behind closed door...biggie boy like SWF's can n will do their bidding...on such common shares.

Their...they have enuff powerful money to ask their kakis which can decide to move as n when..oni we do not know when...anyway their new TP{ is US$3.25ct

candle      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 14:10) Posted: why buy at 3.25 when u can get it at 1.41 so overnight loss is xx bilion  do not understand the mathe

 

It is a multi billion losses to all of us, regardless of...We get nothing out of it anyway as our need it taken care off by stablizaling our rice bowl and making it cheaper for companies to continue-ing to operate here with a 9% indirect cut equal to a cut of 9% cost in our CPF, plus others cost saving mesurement,  this may not be enuff...off budget will come in again if... more goodie is coming soon as election is nearer....as we see more retrenching or record data show recession is still leveling and kicking in.....and not in the near future or out yet.

when one retiring age one can decide...staying in old folk home, or our pigeon house or eg living in cheaper countries..visit more other cheaper countries to be familar with..., stretch ur dollars, save n live....Shop n save. 

TradeChancellor      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 13:47) Posted: The ramifications for this multi-billion loss will affect people on the ground: Increase the age of CPF withdrawal! Withdrawal amount lesser and lesser! (officially touted as life expectancy increase). If one were to give up singapore citizenship, one could do a full withdrawal of OA, special account and medisave, a substantial amount indeed.......

 

why buy at 3.25 when u can get it at 1.41

so overnight loss is xx bilion 

do not understand the mathe


 

 

The ramifications for this multi-billion loss will affect people on the ground: Increase the age of CPF withdrawal! Withdrawal amount lesser and lesser! (officially touted as life expectancy increase). If one were to give up singapore citizenship, one could do a full withdrawal of OA, special account and medisave, a substantial amount indeed.......

 

We are riding into Stage Four...Credit Melting..

What next..from our beloved chief..?. (healing for purple color)

Strait Times paper headline: GIC raises Citigroup stake to 11.1% (conversion rate US$3.25ct)

Posted: 24-Dec-2008    Capitaland's will have Mr Peter Seah as deputy chairman from Jan 2009. A former banker with OUB, also serve as President & CEO of ST till 2004, with his experience, he can help former Finance minister and with former Finance Minister. Mr Richard Hu as Capland chairman. He is seen as to be slot for taking over the chairmanship. It is a lost to Temasick Holding

Out there and right here in Singapore...there are many top graded people's who is alway around...Just to names a few..Like SIA...proven very solid organisation even in this recession, Capital land, Singtel, MAS board, SGX board, POSBank, NTUC Fairprice Chairman, we also has Mr Khaw..from health who has proven to nurse back Singapore govt restructure hospital to it healthy position today.

All no easy task, all plan for long term, great mind, overseeing their respective portfolios.

Most recently, Mr Koh is tap for his qualitative experience, he is one n only one among so many heavy weight...cannot do much even if he wanted to say no...I do understand..

 

She is a non starter for Temasick  Holding. I drew such notices from Singapore Technology when she is a CEO, then move on to even biggie SWF's like Temasek.. tell me how to be better manage such SWF's fund when Temasek is so much biggie when compare to engineering firm like S'pore Technology, where is the logic, so is the Temasick Chairman who boosted he personnally bring her in...as a result..everyone can see a very clear constrasting picture of who can do what..it a lost cause by not inviting Dr Richard Hu to be the next chief as chairman of Temasek Holding...on condition no interference from MM Lee or his...kakis

victorian2      ( Date: 27-Feb-2009 12:01) Posted: tan on Fri, 27th Feb 2009 11:01 am  You are right on! old boys network which most are now out or on their way out. That’s the problem, you see….Ho Ching, top 10 most powerful woman on the planet so these banking titans. Of course, no longer in 2009. My friend mocked her describing to me how she was like in Temasek, how she had favourites (those who could do no wrong yet incompetent) and so many within Temasek are simply mocking her…of course in front of the Empress. Yes Mdm…Yes Mdm.. you’re the woman.. but behind.. laugh at her idiotic decision making and logic behind them. Basically, she’s the joke of the investment community. Here are some of my thoughts: 1. Why the hell did Temasek pursue a growth investment strategy ie High beta stocks when our reserves, as precious as it is, should dictate we pursue a low Beta, value investment strategy. ie, all our people, Ho Ching included (by the way, an engineer by training: what the hell does she know about investment) should be shipped to Warren Buffet for Training. Why Warren Buffet should have been invited to sit on the board of Temasek and GIC. Ironically, MM mocked Warren saying he has shareholders to account to yearly hence could not pursue the kind of investments Temasek would go into. Look who has the last laugh. Warren’s $5b investment in Goldman sacs is down a mere 10% from his entry price (plus it’s pref shares). Goldman has not raised more funds hence protecting existing shareholders from dilution. Contray to what MM says…..Temasek’s investments in the banks are screwed….dilution all around significantly and the death knell is when the US Govt takes 20-40% stakes in the banks. Our investments are really LONG LONG TERM investments. 2. Why the hell is Dhanabalan chairman of Temasek..another non-financial trained. Shouldn’t Richard Hu or Tony Tan be??? Tony Tan though made bad investments decisions, the structure of the investments protect the reserves from the downside, and in a worse case scenerio, we earn just the paltry dividend/interest from the preference shares strcuture. Nothing really to shout about but the capital is preserved. Tony Tan’s a smart man. This is where I don’t get it. How the hell could Ho Ching take such reckless risks when Tony Tan is taking a more prudent approach structuring deals like Warren Buffet’s deal with Goldman. off couse, GIC should have waited longer and using the same structures, GIC would have huge upside 5-10yrs down the road. 3. In conclusion, years of savings(reserves) and growth of our Singapore assets in the portfolio have been depleted just by some of these crap investments. 4. To say that Ho Ching simply lost back on some of the profits mades in the last 4yrs is also untrue. Many of the divestments were made before her time like the Power generating hence it’s easy to push the button to sell and book the profits. Her measurement should be purely on the deals she made during her tenue in Temasek. (it’s a dismal record) contray to what is reported. What I’m very pissed of including my friend is the new guy might come under severe pressure and continue to sell assets held for a long time to limit the losses. I would rather see Temasek OWN UP. ADMIST THEY F UP and write off the bloody investment like what Ron Sim did with OSIM, write off the their 90m balance in investment in the US foray to stop future hits on their P&L…which incidently… another mess up by Temasek there. THink they put in $150m in that deal. 5. I used to be an ardent supported of the PAP. But this time round, I’m going to put a NO VOTE in the ballot to send a message (eventhough Khaw Boon Wah is my MP, met him, spoke to him and I like him. he’s a good guy…one of the few who dare to say I’m sorry, let’s fix it) The rest with the exception of Vivian and George Yeo..are becoming high and mighty in the ivory towers and in this time of crisis…their true colours are beginning to show. Raymond Lim. I just feel sick that now all the coverings, BS in the press is starting in preparation of a quick General Elections. By the way, PM Lee was also the Finance Minister during the last 4yrs before Tharman tooked over so technically, the Wife reported to him. Temasek reports to MOF which is why the equally incompetent Lim Hwee Hua reported on behalf of Temasek. 6. PM made the biggest mistake of his career as PM, allow the appointment of his wife as CEO Temasek and wiped about billions of our reserves that his father MM and team build up so damn painstakingly over the decades. 7. There’s no accountability and if singaporeans let it passed this time round ie the Ho Ching saga, by the time MM goes, I don’t think Singapore can survive well in another generation. THERE MUST BE ACCOUNTABILITY! 8. To rub salt into the wound, “I’ve no regrets”. Seriously, what kind of F up attitude it that…oh ya, she’s the Wife of the Prime Minister. A very disappointed PAP Supporter.

 

Meanwhile GIC has decided to convert it prefrerred shares to common shares, increasing it stake  to 11.1% in it US$6.88 Billion investment in US gaint banking Group, CITI bank alongside US goverment made it 1st move which decided to invest US$ 25 billion of it it own preferred shares it own to common shares, raising its stake to as much as 36%.

The move is conditional that other SWF's like GIC, Saudi Arab Prince Alwaleed Talal, Capital Research Global Investors and Capital World Investors does the same, converting their preferred shares.

For GIC to convert its preferred shares at lower pricing, at US$3.25 per share than its original invested price of last Jan ,  or at US$26.35ct as for last year 2008. (Averaging down it losses from 80% to 24% or US$1.67 billion) that is based on last Thursday's closing price of US$2.49 cents.

GIC will however lost it 7% dividend from it preferred shares or US$482 miilion a year.

As a norm shareholder, GIC is taking on more market rick with it common shares. However the supported fund alongside US goverment has boosted Citi bank group capacity to weather today severe economic downturn. It will be win-win situation when economic turn to go up and world economy recovers.

This news has others Citi sharesholders who now face massive dilution from such action by US goverment and others SWF's investor taking on more common shares. Citigroup shares slimped more than 36% when markets opened yesterday to US1.56 cents

GIC thus become 2nd largest investor after US goverrment and

teeth53 thot this will not becoming a so call long or very long term, my estimation is between a 5 to 10 years times frame. GIC will be able to see it recovery on Citigroup as a worthy cause. This is the work of US president Obama and his finance team to revise the economy by end of his 1st term.

 

Just for info sharing..... Eurozone jobless at 2-year high Unemployment in the 16 countries using the euro rose to 8.2% in January. -AFP » More keen to join eurozone

Denmark in recession Its gross domestic product (GDP) shrank by 2%. -AFP Wall St sinks to 12-year lows The Dow Jones dropped 119.15 points, capping a dismal month. -AFP

Hey big spender, spend a little time with me
What do Wall Street bankers and S'poreans have in common?

teeth53      ( Date: 27-Feb-2009 21:05) Posted: Japan is facing it worst recession...60 year worst. The labour ministry highlighted the human cost of the crisis, predicting that almost 160,000 temporary workers will have lost their jobs in the half year to March as battered companies slash their payrolls. "I regard this as an extremely serious situation," Labour Minister Yoichi Masuzoe told parliament. "We will do our utmost to help their job searches, offering job training and preparing places for them to live." Although the unemployment rate fell slightly, the overall number of unemployed rose 8.2 percent in January from a year earlier to 2.77 million, following a wave of layoffs by struggling Japanese companies. "The labour market is showing clearer signs of worsening as the economy deteriorates," said Monex Securities chief economist Naoki Murakami. Lloyds declares ?10.8 bln HBOS loss AFP - 2 hours 49 minutes ago LONDON (AFP) - - Britain's Lloyds Banking Group, 43-percent state owned after a bailout, said Friday its HBOS unit made a pre-tax loss of 10.8 billion pounds (12.1 billion euros, 15.4 billion dollars) in 2008. More » Royal Bank of Scotland Thursday posted a 2008 loss of 24.1 billion pounds -- a British corporate record -- and said it will ring-fence 325 billion pounds of risky assets in a government insurance scheme. The gigantic loss, equivalent to 34 billion dollars or 27 billion euros, was as a result of the credit crunch and the costly and mis-timed takeover of Dutch lender ABN Amro. and here we LOST many billions throught kiasorium, thoughtless mindset and also w/o much effort or accountablities.....

 

It's not just a saying...  

In future, cosmetic face surgery may advance more by using the wrinkleless smooth skin graft for the face...  

 

Must show that she is powderful! Praised by angmo to skyhigh. Use buttock skin to graft onto the face (Hokkien phase). 

 

Japan is facing it worst recession...60 year worst.

The labour ministry highlighted the human cost of the crisis, predicting that almost 160,000 temporary workers will have lost their jobs in the half year to March as battered companies slash their payrolls.

"I regard this as an extremely serious situation," Labour Minister Yoichi Masuzoe told parliament. "We will do our utmost to help their job searches, offering job training and preparing places for them to live."

Although the unemployment rate fell slightly, the overall number of unemployed rose 8.2 percent in January from a year earlier to 2.77 million, following a wave of layoffs by struggling Japanese companies.

"The labour market is showing clearer signs of worsening as the economy deteriorates," said Monex Securities chief economist Naoki Murakami.

Lloyds declares ?10.8 bln HBOS loss

AFP - 2 hours 49 minutes ago

LONDON (AFP) - - Britain's Lloyds Banking Group, 43-percent state owned after a bailout, said Friday its HBOS unit made a pre-tax loss of 10.8 billion pounds (12.1 billion euros, 15.4 billion dollars) in 2008. More »

Royal Bank of Scotland Thursday posted a 2008 loss of 24.1 billion pounds -- a British corporate record -- and said it will ring-fence 325 billion pounds of risky assets in a government insurance scheme. The gigantic loss, equivalent to 34 billion dollars or 27 billion euros, was as a result of the credit crunch and the costly and mis-timed takeover of Dutch lender ABN Amro.

and here we LOST many billions throught kiasorium, thoughtless mindset and also w/o much effort or accountablities.....

 

1. 
   
   tan on Fri, 27th Feb 2009 11:01 am 
   
   
   
   You are right on! old boys network which most are now out or on their way out. That’s the problem, you see….Ho Ching, top 10 most powerful woman on the planet so these banking titans. Of course, no longer in 2009. My friend mocked her describing to me how she was like in Temasek, how she had favourites (those who could do no wrong yet incompetent) and so many within Temasek are simply mocking her…of course in front of the Empress. Yes Mdm…Yes Mdm.. you’re the woman.. but behind.. laugh at her idiotic decision making and logic behind them. Basically, she’s the joke of the investment community.
   
   Here are some of my thoughts:
   
   1. Why the hell did Temasek pursue a growth investment strategy ie High beta stocks when our reserves, as precious as it is, should dictate we pursue a low Beta, value investment strategy. ie, all our people, Ho Ching included (by the way, an engineer by training: what the hell does she know about investment) should be shipped to Warren Buffet for Training. Why Warren Buffet should have been invited to sit on the board of Temasek and GIC. Ironically, MM mocked Warren saying he has shareholders to account to yearly hence could not pursue the kind of investments Temasek would go into. Look who has the last laugh. Warren’s $5b investment in Goldman sacs is down a mere 10% from his entry price (plus it’s pref shares). Goldman has not raised more funds hence protecting existing shareholders from dilution. Contray to what MM says…..Temasek’s investments in the banks are screwed….dilution all around significantly and the death knell is when the US Govt takes 20-40% stakes in the banks. Our investments are really LONG LONG TERM investments.
   
   2. Why the hell is Dhanabalan chairman of Temasek..another non-financial trained. Shouldn’t Richard Hu or Tony Tan be??? Tony Tan though made bad investments decisions, the structure of the investments protect the reserves from the downside, and in a worse case scenerio, we earn just the paltry dividend/interest from the preference shares strcuture. Nothing really to shout about but the capital is preserved. Tony Tan’s a smart man. This is where I don’t get it. How the hell could Ho Ching take such reckless risks when Tony Tan is taking a more prudent approach structuring deals like Warren Buffet’s deal with Goldman. off couse, GIC should have waited longer and using the same structures, GIC would have huge upside 5-10yrs down the road.
   
   3. In conclusion, years of savings(reserves) and growth of our Singapore assets in the portfolio have been depleted just by some of these crap investments.
   
   4. To say that Ho Ching simply lost back on some of the profits mades in the last 4yrs is also untrue. Many of the divestments were made before her time like the Power generating hence it’s easy to push the button to sell and book the profits. Her measurement should be purely on the deals she made during her tenue in Temasek. (it’s a dismal record) contray to what is reported. What I’m very pissed of including my friend is the new guy might come under severe pressure and continue to sell assets held for a long time to limit the losses. I would rather see Temasek OWN UP. ADMIST THEY F UP and write off the bloody investment like what Ron Sim did with OSIM, write off the their 90m balance in investment in the US foray to stop future hits on their P&L…which incidently… another mess up by Temasek there. THink they put in $150m in that deal.
   
   5. I used to be an ardent supported of the PAP. But this time round, I’m going to put a NO VOTE in the ballot to send a message (eventhough Khaw Boon Wah is my MP, met him, spoke to him and I like him. he’s a good guy…one of the few who dare to say I’m sorry, let’s fix it) The rest with the exception of Vivian and George Yeo..are becoming high and mighty in the ivory towers and in this time of crisis…their true colours are beginning to show. Raymond Lim.
   
   I just feel sick that now all the coverings, BS in the press is starting in preparation of a quick General Elections.
   
   By the way, PM Lee was also the Finance Minister during the last 4yrs before Tharman tooked over so technically, the Wife reported to him. Temasek reports to MOF which is why the equally incompetent Lim Hwee Hua reported on behalf of Temasek.
   
   6. PM made the biggest mistake of his career as PM, allow the appointment of his wife as CEO Temasek and wiped about billions of our reserves that his father MM and team build up so damn painstakingly over the decades.
   
   7. There’s no accountability and if singaporeans let it passed this time round ie the Ho Ching saga, by the time MM goes, I don’t think Singapore can survive well in another generation.
   THERE MUST BE ACCOUNTABILITY!
   
   8. To rub salt into the wound, “I’ve no regrets”. Seriously, what kind of F up attitude it that…oh ya, she’s the Wife of the Prime Minister.
   
   A very disappointed PAP Supporter.