Others   

Citigroup is back on right footing,5-10yr recovery

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20090227/tbs-gic-citi-7318940.html

"GIC supports the initiative by Citigroup and the U.S. government to strengthen the quality of the bank's capital base," GIC said in a statement.

GIC's executive director Tony Tan said this month unleveraged global investors such as sovereign wealth funds will pay a more important role in future as hedge funds and private equity find their activities constrained by tighter borrowing restrictions.

Western governments, which have taken large stakes in banks to prop up their financial systems, will eventually have to "re-privatise" assets on a massive scale and will need to attract long-term institutional investors like sovereign funds when markets stabilise, he said.

teeth53      ( Date: 01-Mar-2009 17:56) Posted: When times to arrive for Citi to emerge stronger, it will be in S'pore blessing as a regional financial Hub and strenghting Singapore as another world player, having play a role in strenghting Citigroup, thus can see alot more players (banks and bankers) parking their $$$ here. However S'pore will have to strengthen and update it rules and financial regulation in tune with time and automatic invited very rich clients to park their $$$ here as well. teeth53      ( Date: 01-Mar-2009 16:40) Posted: We (GIC) would have lost more then 90% for very US dollars held w/o conversion as Citi cannot effort to pay 7% dividend yeild, simply b'cos Citi is not making even a cent, thus by strengthing it capital base, GIC losses is greatly reduce over long term and when world economy turn around within expectation by Obama term...(5yr). Citi conversion prices of US$3.25 can be seen as a very good buy for GIC (2nd largest shares holder), the fear in US retail investor is not knowing how to react to news such as when word like nationalizing is play out appear on their mind, initial thinking might be a shock to them, thus prices is trade down by shocking 37%

 

Of the three huge bank...Citicroup is d 1st, very likely to tell the truth, while the other maybe.....

Over short term... Sell, Keep for long term...next 2Q is equally important for CITI to perform well. 

 

Hi AK did U made ur purchase <US1.20..?. Hope U do. happy trading...YA

Today Straits Times paper reported US three financial huge gain. Dow Jones Industrial Average of 30 blue Chips surged 9% on the week to end last Friday at 7,223.98.

The board base market standard and poor's 500 bounced back from nearly 13 years low, rallying 10.7% in the week to 756.65

Tech heavy Nasdaq composite climbed 10.6% over the week to 1,431.5.

Citigroup jumped 73% to US$1.78ct

BoA rose 83% to US$5.76ct while

JPMorganadded 49% to US$23.75ct

teeth53      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 10:30) Posted: Think like great minded man...great mind from Saudi Arabis's Prince Alwaleed, GIC Tony Tan and greatest of all...from OBAMA and his financial team. teeth53 thot: Great minded think alike..Citi is now on right footing... GIC takes bigger bite from Citi S'pore investment company GIC will convert its preferred shares in Citigroup to common stock. »At what price? US govt. may own up to 36% of Citi http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/411996/1/.html GIC converts preferred notes in Citigroup to common shares teeth53      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 10:10) Posted: New Citigroup targeted prices US$3.25 cents, over longer term US$10.00 to US$20.00 dollars is a real possiblity. With such strong supporters, such move is conditional that other SWF's like GIC, Saudi Arab Prince Alwaleed Talal, Capital Research Global Investors and Capital World Investors does the same, converting their preferred shares. GIC has decided to convert it prefrerred shares to common shares, increasing it stake  to 11.1% in it US$6.88 Billion investment in US gaint banking Group, CITI bank alongside US goverment who made it 1st move which decided for US govt to invest US$ 25 billion of it it own preferred shares it own to common shares, raising its stake to as much as 36% for US govt. For GIC to convert its preferred shares at lower pricing, at US$3.25 per share than its original invested price of last Jan ,  or at US$26.35ct as for last year 2008. (Averaging down it losses from 80% to 24% or US$1.67 billion) that is based on last Thursday's closing price of US$2.49 cents. GIC will however lost it 7% dividend from it preferred shares or US$482 miilion a year. As a norm shareholder, GIC is taking on more market rick with it common shares. However the supported fund alongside US goverment has boosted Citi bank group capacity to weather today severe economic downturn. It will be win-win situation when economic turn to go up and world economy recovers. This news has others Citi sharesholders who now face massive dilution from such action by US goverment and others SWF's investor taking on more common shares. Citigroup shares sliped more than 36% when markets opened yesterday to US1.56 cents GIC thus become 2nd largest investor after US goverrment and teeth53 thot this will not becoming a so call long or very long term, my estimation is between a 5 to 10 years times frame. GIC will be able to see it recovery on Citigroup as a worthy cause. This is the work of US president Obama and his finance team to revise the economy by end of his (Obama) 1st term.

 

Better to avoid this stock. Why buy a stock with toxic assets?

 

My losses today in stock will be heavier, have i not go into gold and silver related investment..

if he is saying over past 30 yrs..then i agree that gold is lousy, but not fr 2000 till now...and going forward..it is going to be a profitable investment...but i think if citi have the blessing of the US govt , then i think after the crises past, it may shine again..since they just refuse to let it fail...how mto go bankrupt, when you have ppl pass you money when you are broke..

 

Something to share.... PM interview at Hua Hin, Thailand...

Qn : re GIC/Citigrp : What's the impact for GIC

PM : No, I'm not discussing GIC today, this issue has been addressed from time to time in Parl; i think recently Mrs Lim Hwee Hua answered qns in Parl from Sylvia Lim n others... n i dont hv an update. The position we have taken, and it's the correct attitude, is that this is long term money invested with a LT perspective, n u hv to take ups and downs, n u hv to look at the overall portfolio, and overall, we've performed well. In a bad year, like last yr, this yr, we probably will see shrinkage, but u hv to take a LT perspective, bcos if u jump up and down and u want to break even or make money every quarter, i think u will not be able to have a sensible policy or a sensible outcome. You will end up not protecting your value, and it will be like buying gold which will do nothing, or putting your money in a safe deposit box, which also will do nothing, and we cannot do that.

What ??gold do NOTHING???or did he read anything abt gold??...if they have join me and  buy gold back...in 2000 at 255...today we will be the only SWF on this planet doing very well...gold today is 935..266%...instead of losing billions in citi...

What can i say...he prefer to put $ in a lousy stock...$58b...that is $16100 for every one of the 3.6 millions pepole in Singapore.!!!

 

"The House of Cards" is a must-watch for anyone. Good production. I watched twice already.

 

To understand the US con job, suggest forumers watch the repeat broadcast on CNBC tonight 10pm to 12 mn....The House of Cards. Really insightful on how the subprime started and escalated into the fiasco today. 

Lazyhorse      ( Date: 01-Mar-2009 19:56) Posted: What else do you expect them to say after being conned ?

 

What else do you expect them to say after being conned ?

 

PM argument to compare our SIA, KCI etc with investment in the likes of Citi is really off tangent.

Our investment in Citi, UBS, ML, we take a minor stake (a few %) in these companies. We have no board seat and we have no control over the direction of growth and development of these companies. It is with the same objective as retail investors (note....I say 'investors' and not 'traders') in the stock maket. There is little or no strategic purpose in these investments except for roi and yields.

Whereas, SIA, KepCorp, SembCorp are our home grown companies where the govt holds significant controlling stake in the companies. Whilst the govt will deny it, it does influence the direction of growth and development of these companies.

The govt have always claimed that these investments (in Citi, UBS etc) are for loooong term......if this is true, then why did they sell off their stake in China Construction Bank, Bank of China for a profit after holding it for a short time (1-2 years?)....this seems to contradict their argument of looong term investment.

Likewise, the contradiction of their policy of our national assets when they sold off the power stations (now all owned by foreigners) when TH needed to raise capital to cover their investment losses. Should we not have kept control of the power stations for strategic reasons???? Afterall, the control of electrical supply is vital to our national security. I guess the sale of the power stations was  chosen cos it would have been less glaring to the public as they were not listed on the stock exchange......and hence issues like selling price, profit from sale, terms and conditions of the sale, etc would not have been subject to public and minority investors' scrutiny. 

 

ticklish8      ( Date: 01-Mar-2009 16:27) Posted: Something to share.... PM interview at Hua Hin, Thailand... Qn : re GIC/Citigrp : What's the impact for GIC PM : No, I'm not discussing GIC today, this issue has been addressed from time to time in Parl; i think recently Mrs Lim Hwee Hua answered qns in Parl from Sylvia Lim n others... n i dont hv an update. The position we have taken, and it's the correct attitude, is that this is long term money invested with a LT perspective, n u hv to take ups and downs, n u hv to look at the overall portfolio, and overall, we've performed well. In a bad year, like last yr, this yr, we probably will see shrinkage, but u hv to take a LT perspective, bcos if u jump up and down and u want to break even or make money every quarter, i think u will not be able to have a sensible policy or a sensible outcome. You will end up not protecting your value, and it will be like buying gold which will do nothing, or putting your money in a safe deposit box, which also will do nothing, and we cannot do that. Qn : ...what about in the event that Citigroup gets nationalised.... PM : No.... we cannot discuss Citigroup as Citigroup; we hv to look at the whole of the portfolio, and overall what is the performance... (there are)some ups n some downs, some good, some bad, some good years, some bad years, and overall, over 20 years, it has done well and i think in this market, there is no fund which has not (!??!) done well. I mean, u look at all of the university endowments in America - down 20, 25,.. Harvard is abt 30% (down) It is inevitable. If you stay invested, you hv to accept the ups n the downs. And if you are like Temasek and you are owning Singtel, and SIA, and DBS, and Keppel, and SembCorp, all of these shares hv gone down; the Spore stock market has gone down by half. So if you just add up the losses on these shares alone, you're talking abt S$30 billion or some very considerable sum, so what is the govt to do ? Do you want us to sell off SIA bcos next yr the price is going down, or Singtel? Do you want us to short these companies ? (laughs) Or short the Spore market bcos u think the Spore market is going to go down ? You cant; you have to sit there, these are long term assets, we are looking for long term value. And we hv to keep a LT perspective

 

US has executed an excellent con job. They have managed to con the whole wide world to buy their companies including GICs, by covering up their problems over the last 2 years.
The only good thing that emerge for all these is that everyone in the whole wide world own a piece of US !!! So much about their protectism and arrognantism.....

 

When times to arrive for Citi to emerge stronger, it will be in S'pore blessing as a regional financial Hub and strenghting Singapore as another world player, having play a role in strenghting Citigroup, thus can see alot more players (banks and bankers) parking their $$$ here. However S'pore will have to strengthen and update it rules and financial regulation in tune with time and automatic invited very rich clients to park their $$$ here as well.

teeth53      ( Date: 01-Mar-2009 16:40) Posted: We (GIC) would have lost more then 90% for very US dollars held w/o conversion as Citi cannot effort to pay 7% dividend yeild, simply b'cos Citi is not making even a cent, thus by strengthing it capital base, GIC losses is greatly reduce over long term and when world economy turn around within expectation by Obama term...(5yr). Citi conversion prices of US$3.25 can be seen as a very good buy for GIC (2nd largest shares holder), the fear in US retail investor is not knowing how to react to news such as when word like nationalizing is play out appear on their mind, initial thinking might be a shock to them, thus prices is trade down by shocking 37%   teeth53      ( Date: 01-Mar-2009 10:14) Posted: Feb 11, 2009. Mr Pandit. CEO of citigroup...It has started top down by voluntary been pay oni a dollar a year in salary and no bonus till we return to profitablity...His goal to return to profitablity ASAP as he told his board of directors. He is expected to keep his job and answer-able to new board of directors, including independent majority of directors.

 

Million dollar questions are swarming in for both our IA. Just can't help, cross d toes n hope for d best loh.

D 4 pilots, one left d cockpit, left d 3 local pilots to go. Much wish they could make d flight landing safely n take off sucessfully again, after fuel filling, though take sometime.

 

We (GIC) would have lost more then 90% for very US dollars held w/o conversion as Citi cannot effort to pay 7% dividend yeild, simply b'cos Citi is not making even a cent, thus by strengthing it capital base, GIC losses is greatly reduce over long term and when world economy turn around within expectation by Obama term...(5yr). Citi conversion prices of US$3.25 can be seen as a very good buy for GIC (2nd largest shares holder), the fear in US retail investor is not knowing how to react to news such as when word like nationalizing is play out appear on their mind, initial thinking might be a shock to them, thus prices is trade down by shocking 37%  

teeth53      ( Date: 01-Mar-2009 10:14) Posted: Feb 11, 2009. Mr Pandit. CEO of citigroup...It has started top down by voluntary been pay oni a dollar a year in salary and no bonus till we return to profitablity...His goal to return to profitablity ASAP as he told his board of directors. He is expected to keep his job and answer-able to new board of directors, including independent majority of directors.  dcang84      ( Date: 28-Feb-2009 20:44) Posted: The problem is citi cannot afford to pay the 7% dividend to holders of its preference shares and that includes GIC. Moreover they have to meet the stress test requirements set by Geitner and company. I do agree that conversion to common stock cannot be a good thing as the risk has just gone up by afew notches but I suppose its the lesser of the two evils. Whatever it is, GIC look look like d**bf**ks. Immediately after conversion we are over a billion dollars poorer.

 

Something to share.... PM interview at Hua Hin, Thailand...

Qn : re GIC/Citigrp : What's the impact for GIC

PM : No, I'm not discussing GIC today, this issue has been addressed from time to time in Parl; i think recently Mrs Lim Hwee Hua answered qns in Parl from Sylvia Lim n others... n i dont hv an update. The position we have taken, and it's the correct attitude, is that this is long term money invested with a LT perspective, n u hv to take ups and downs, n u hv to look at the overall portfolio, and overall, we've performed well. In a bad year, like last yr, this yr, we probably will see shrinkage, but u hv to take a LT perspective, bcos if u jump up and down and u want to break even or make money every quarter, i think u will not be able to have a sensible policy or a sensible outcome. You will end up not protecting your value, and it will be like buying gold which will do nothing, or putting your money in a safe deposit box, which also will do nothing, and we cannot do that.

Qn : ...what about in the event that Citigroup gets nationalised....

PM : No.... we cannot discuss Citigroup as Citigroup; we hv to look at the whole of the portfolio, and overall what is the performance... (there are)some ups n some downs, some good, some bad, some good years, some bad years, and overall, over 20 years, it has done well and i think in this market, there is no fund which has not (!??!) done well. I mean, u look at all of the university endowments in America - down 20, 25,.. Harvard is abt 30% (down) It is inevitable. If you stay invested, you hv to accept the ups n the downs.

And if you are like Temasek and you are owning Singtel, and SIA, and DBS, and Keppel, and SembCorp, all of these shares hv gone down; the Spore stock market has gone down by half. So if you just add up the losses on these shares alone, you're talking abt S$30 billion or some very considerable sum, so what is the govt to do ? Do you want us to sell off SIA bcos next yr the price is going down, or Singtel? Do you want us to short these companies ? (laughs) Or short the Spore market bcos u think the Spore market is going to go down ? You cant; you have to sit there, these are long term assets, we are looking for long term value. And we hv to keep a LT perspective

 

Yes, you have a point....its cheaper to buy from the open market at say about 1.50. But, that means GIC will have to use more of our reserves  to dump into this lousy share.

By converting the Pref shares, (Pref sh were bought at 29.00 ea), GIC will get 8.92 ord shares (29.00/3.25= 8.92). No need to waste more money in a badly considered investment (remember, someone in GIC - think it was Tony T who boasted that GIC took all of 48 hrs to do their due diligence). I would be more impressed if GIC claimed they made a profit of 6.88B (the total investment in Citi) in 48 hrs. Any idiot can spend 6.88B in 48 hrs ...which, of course reflects on GIC and TH.

Furthermore, the push to convert was also due to Citi saying that they will not be paying the 7% divident for the Pref sh. So, for GIC to hold onto to PS will mean there will be no 'yield' for the foreseeable future.

If GIC were to try to purchase the same no. of shares in the open market (6.88bil/3.25=2.12billion shares)........I doubt the price of citi would have remained at 1.50.

So, conversion at 3.25 is a very, very lucky break for GIC considering that the original conversion price is 31.43. If Citi survives, I think its price has a fairly good chance of breeching 3.25. This stoke of luck, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with any possible ounce of investment savviness  that may possibility exist in GIC...but knowing the Establishment, they will be blowing away at their trumpets when this happens..... 

787180      ( Date: 01-Mar-2009 13:50) Posted: Singapore is "forced' to help since we've the reserves...but why convert when U can buy even cheaper the Citibank shares from the farket US 1.60 vs conversion price of preferred stock at USD 3.25...no wonder SG want to dip into our reserves to help the economy to prevent critics from emaphaising our $58b loss..see LKY even tried to justify HO Ching mistakes,,,,,,shares are for long long haul..the probelm may not recover or >10years to recover....opportunity cost again

 

When one want to convert prices...it has to be at the lowerst form..(traded price), so pay at the lowest average traded price..When conversion is over..it can be of different story to tell the public or sell to the public, there by trading price will not be at the lowest form in form of TP US3.25., their target is 12 - 18 nths away.

787180      ( Date: 01-Mar-2009 13:50) Posted: Singapore is "forced' to help since we've the reserves...but why convert when U can buy even cheaper the Citibank shares from the farket US 1.60 vs conversion price of preferred stock at USD 3.25...no wonder SG want to dip into our reserves to help the economy to prevent critics from emaphaising our $58b loss..see LKY even tried to justify HO Ching mistakes,,,,,,shares are for long long haul..the probelm may not recover or >10years to recover....opportunity cost again

 

A lot do not seem to know or understand that retailers cannot just like that.....(SWF's cannot buy  from open market everyday traded price). SWF's cannot do so like us buying  1 - 2 hundred shares. They bought in many, many million of shares, worth in many, many billion of dollars....Tony just did that with just a stroke of a pen and before Obama 1st term is up...Citigroup is likely to recover back to it TP of US$3.25ct...sooner the better..1st to go in..1st to get out, their CEO target 12 mths - 18 mths away, given huge commited support by...

teeth53 thot: 50 + 1% chances to make it grade tipping the scale just by winning by the nose.

Headlines indicated US president Obama is ready to do battle with those lobbyists saying he didn't come here to do the same thing we've been doing or to take a small stepforward. He mentioned "I came to provide the sweeping changes that this country demanded when it went to the polls in November 2008.

Taking on the critics "I know they're gearing up for a fight as he speak. His meesage to them is this..So am I." President Obama word. 

787180      ( Date: 01-Mar-2009 13:50) Posted: Singapore is "forced' to help since we've the reserves...but why convert when U can buy even cheaper the Citibank shares from the farket US 1.60 vs conversion price of preferred stock at USD 3.25...no wonder SG want to dip into our reserves to help the economy to prevent critics from emaphaising our $58b loss..see LKY even tried to justify HO Ching mistakes,,,,,,shares are for long long haul..the probelm may not recover or >10years to recover....opportunity cost again

 

Singapore is "forced' to help since we've the reserves...but why convert when U can buy even cheaper the Citibank shares from the farket US 1.60 vs conversion price of preferred stock at USD 3.25...no wonder SG want to dip into our reserves to help the economy to prevent critics from emaphaising our $58b loss..see LKY even tried to justify HO Ching mistakes,,,,,,shares are for long long haul..the probelm may not recover or >10years to recover....opportunity cost again

 

Great mind think alike....Obama think is not right to nationalized any bank of such size when it has GIC as 2nd biggest supporter or others international shares holder supporting.

Straits Times Sunday paper give a more details account today, indicating GIC when in on 1st and 3rd round, round to rescue Citigroup, unlike Saudi Arabic Prince which has went in on 1st, 2nd and 3rd rescue...now holding less then GIC, so GIC is still one leg up among against the other...Think think GIC should send our Finance minister as an independent director, or ex-Finance minister Dr Richard Hu and / or Tony Tan there...to over see this huge investment.

 

01101749      ( Date: 01-Mar-2009 11:14) Posted: Citi group and BOA will not exist in 2 years. most likely nationalized or insolvent. Their mounting losses on big bets they made and made them zomby banks which will drain the US of billions and billions dry. so best is to put them to sleep. my friend bought citi at $20 per share and many betting citi will recover to the peak. too bad they R WRONG! bye bye to their saving!  make long bets on bear market most liikely to be wrong.  make long bets on bull markets u r likely to be correct.