The last time in ST Eng....LOST. This time in Remasek, oso LOST. This X, Lost more...Just wondering it help or not by pay cut, me think does not help much...should be retrench. they can retrench MD, so they can oso retrench themself and given severiane pay for each year they work in Remasek Holdin...Then recuilt themself with a much lower pay after they R retench Top execs take pay cut Senior managers at Temasek Holdings -- which is headed by Ho Ching, the wife of PM Lee -- have volunteered to take a 15-to-25% pay cut. »Details
People brougt out Town Counsil in relation to bonds, only recently.
But seems like those great loses in foreign banks inv, ie UBS, Barclays, ML, Citi etc was not argued anywhere leh??? Strange, anyone can enlighten?? Tikam answer also welcome loh.
Apparently the twin brudder of Temadek did park some money there but forgot to withdraw.
Citigroup - is it worth a punt ???
Someone asked me in my Blog about whether Citigroup was worth a punt - that was around the US$8.50 level - its now around the US$4.70 level and has fallen 50% this week alone. Remember that GIC's entry price is around US$29 and the investment was about S$9-10bn. On paper it looks like we have a paper loss of more than 80%. The chart below on Citigroup shows how serious the price decline has been and its probably the next big casualty in the US banking sector. Unlike Lehman - I think it will be rescued but if that follows what happened to Freddie and Fannie - we could be looking at massive dilution for existing shareholders via a preference share issue. There were talks of an Arab investor raising his stake but it did not and could not stop the fall in its share price. A hedge fund manager told me that Citigroup, since its share price is below US$5 per share is now considered a "penny stock" and many US mutual funds will have to start selling the share - this could account for the sharp overnight fall which was on growing volumes. My message is dont buy even at these very low levels until you can see what form the recapitalisation will take - this is to avoid the massive dilution risk to existing shareholders.
15%-25% paycut to atone for their horrendous mistake?Hehe....In a news article at CNBCs website recently, JP Morgan claim that by year end, SWF would be 25% poorer. I take it that this has to be the mean. Look at our paper losses which stands at over 80% and compare.
Make no mistake, I am not against investing our reserves but to put it in harms way the way they did is inexcusable. They ought to be fired!!
jackjames ( Date: 21-Nov-2008 22:28) Posted:
Temasek senior managers volunter for paid cut for 15%-25%... Ouch... well, they are still "well-paid" after the cut... but maybe must change the BMW 7 series to VIOS.. that's all.
jackjames ( Date: 21-Nov-2008 16:40) Posted:
Temasek did not buy Citigroup, they bought Merrill Lynch, first purchase at USD 48... right now, after the cash rebate + secondpurchase, their average price is about USD 24.. so, right now, Temasek holding paper loss of 67.5% at least "RIGHT NOW". .. of course they will tell you all the craps that they hold for 10 years.. blar blar blar..
GIC bought USD 9.8 billions of citigroup at about USD 28... they did not disclose the real purchase price, but that's the price range when they announce.... won't go too far... so, GIC is holding paper loss of 83.2% right now... as for UBS ... GIC bought SGD 9.75 billions for UBS at about USD 50... so, GIC is again holding anohter paper loss of 83.12% right now..
of course both party will say, they aim for long term... somemore, they might say, oh please.. i only made 1 mistake so far, look at my past 10 years history, how much i earn selling what gas station, power station, i earn how many "Billions"... that's not the point... the point is, as a prestiguous firm, you made such a big mistake, and no one dares to report such news nowadays at the Straits times, i still remember, when they pumped in the money, the news almost everyday say GIC and Temasek is the biggest shareholder.. blar blar blar, every single day, now is just shy away from public....
so, they have to learn a precious lesson now... US market is far beyond the small little red dot imagination, don't assume it is always as easy as "ABC"....
I didn't know there was a goondoo moniker.Sorry. I made no reference to u.None intended.
I wouldn't be in the least surprise if cost continues to spiral ahead albeit with less urgency. The media claimed that Temadek have made big profits in the past. Did that stop them from raising prices in a frenzy? No!
Let's hope we dun have to pay more for our basic necessities.
goondoo ( Date: 22-Nov-2008 00:53) Posted:
It is not good for Temasek and GIC to lose so much $$$ in Merill Lynch, UBS and Citigroup. Probably in the tens of billions in paper loss rite now.
They will attempt to recoup their losses one way or another. The easiest way is by increasing indirect taxes. Govt will not increase direct taxes such as income tax or GST as these make Singapore less competitive.
They will just allow stat boards to increase utilities bills, public transport to hike fares, HDB to increase flat prices. In this way, companies like Singtel, Sembcorp (utilities), SMRT will reap huge profits and increase their tax contribution to the govt. And then the govt can give us $100 ang pao every year, when we actually pay 50% higher utilities bills and others which add up to $1k more per annum.
HDB will build much smaller flats but price them higher. The size of an old 3 room flat in old estates like Toa Payoh can be divided into 2 new flats in Punggol and Govt can sell them at just 10% higher, and actual fact, they sell 2 flats for 220% price of what used to be 1 3 room flat.
So we should pray hard GIC and Temasek make huge profits, so that our life are not so hard pressed. If not, look forward to huge increase in prices of basic amenities every few months or even every few weeks from now on.
The way I see it, it is the people's money regardless of where it is coming from, be it GIC or Temadek. I dun think it is so much a question of how long the investment will remain in the rut. Could they have made better informed decisions?
Investments is all about timing as well.
crimson ( Date: 21-Nov-2008 23:43) Posted:
Seriously wanted to ask... is the money invested by GIC coming from Singapore's national reserve funds? If it is and now they make a big paper lost, which may means indirect our country/government/citizen's money kena trapped in paper form until 10yrs or more down the road isn't it?
dcang84 ( Date: 21-Nov-2008 22:49) Posted:
Thanks for the info. I really hope the ones they are vested in goes bankrupt. Many thot they were suckers when they came out with the money so quickly. They must think they are damn f#%@*^g business savvy. ABC learning in Ozzie went bust and only they know how many more investments not reported have gone sour.
You are right about the long term thingy. Any one from sharejunction can turn in profits if they have access to resources like those goodoos.
Pray hard this "reality" of increasing monthly bills does not materialize, anyway dun think gov would do such a think now... they may hold it for a year or 2 and when things starts to get better than all of a sudden these companys will start to jump the prices citing "they have hold the price below cost for so many years"... by then we consumer will get triple times more xpensive loh... kaoz
goondoo ( Date: 22-Nov-2008 00:53) Posted:
It is not good for Temasek and GIC to lose so much $$$ in Merill Lynch, UBS and Citigroup. Probably in the tens of billions in paper loss rite now.
They will attempt to recoup their losses one way or another. The easiest way is by increasing indirect taxes. Govt will not increase direct taxes such as income tax or GST as these make Singapore less competitive.
They will just allow stat boards to increase utilities bills, public transport to hike fares, HDB to increase flat prices. In this way, companies like Singtel, Sembcorp (utilities), SMRT will reap huge profits and increase their tax contribution to the govt. And then the govt can give us $100 ang pao every year, when we actually pay 50% higher utilities bills and others which add up to $1k more per annum.
HDB will build much smaller flats but price them higher. The size of an old 3 room flat in old estates like Toa Payoh can be divided into 2 new flats in Punggol and Govt can sell them at just 10% higher, and actual fact, they sell 2 flats for 220% price of what used to be 1 3 room flat.
So we should pray hard GIC and Temasek make huge profits, so that our life are not so hard pressed. If not, look forward to huge increase in prices of basic amenities every few months or even every few weeks from now on.
Citigroup's Ills May Signal Market Isn't Near Bottom
Topics:The Bond Report | Economy (U.S.) | Economy (Global) | Stock Market
Companies:Goldman Sachs Group Inc | JPMorgan Chase and Co | Citigroup IncJeff Cox | 21 Nov 2008 | 02:36 PM ET Text Size With speculation mounting over Citigroup's future, investment pros are worried that the bank's problems signal that the market is not near a bottom—but ready to fall further.
Anxiety ran high Friday as Citigroup's stock [C 3.84 -0.87 (-18.47%) ] continued to tumble even after CNBC reported that the bank is considering several options to shore up confidence, including finding a merger partner.
Other Wall Street giants like JPMorgan Chase [JPM 21.00 -2.38 (-10.18%) ] and Goldman Sachs [GS 51.56 -0.44 (-0.85%) ] also saw investors scrambling for the exits.
"It's very stressful," says Kathy Boyle, president of Chapin Hill Advisors in New York. "I don't know if this is an inflection point. I think it's just one more nail in the coffin."
Citigroup's stock isn't out of the woods yet, either. If its share price remains below $5, as it has since Thursday, that could trigger a major selloff by pension funds, mutual funds and other institutional investors that aren't allowed to own stocks below that level.
Citigroup CEO Vikram Pandit, whose leadership has come under increasing criticism, told employees Friday that he would like to keep the company together and doesn't want to spin off the Smith Barney brokerage unit.
It is not good for Temasek and GIC to lose so much $$$ in Merill Lynch, UBS and Citigroup. Probably in the tens of billions in paper loss rite now.
They will attempt to recoup their losses one way or another. The easiest way is by increasing indirect taxes. Govt will not increase direct taxes such as income tax or GST as these make Singapore less competitive.
They will just allow stat boards to increase utilities bills, public transport to hike fares, HDB to increase flat prices. In this way, companies like Singtel, Sembcorp (utilities), SMRT will reap huge profits and increase their tax contribution to the govt. And then the govt can give us $100 ang pao every year, when we actually pay 50% higher utilities bills and others which add up to $1k more per annum.
HDB will build much smaller flats but price them higher. The size of an old 3 room flat in old estates like Toa Payoh can be divided into 2 new flats in Punggol and Govt can sell them at just 10% higher, and actual fact, they sell 2 flats for 220% price of what used to be 1 3 room flat.
So we should pray hard GIC and Temasek make huge profits, so that our life are not so hard pressed. If not, look forward to huge increase in prices of basic amenities every few months or even every few weeks from now on.
Seriously wanted to ask... is the money invested by GIC coming from Singapore's national reserve funds? If it is and now they make a big paper lost, which may means indirect our country/government/citizen's money kena trapped in paper form until 10yrs or more down the road isn't it?
dcang84 ( Date: 21-Nov-2008 22:49) Posted:
Thanks for the info. I really hope the ones they are vested in goes bankrupt. Many thot they were suckers when they came out with the money so quickly. They must think they are damn f#%@*^g business savvy. ABC learning in Ozzie went bust and only they know how many more investments not reported have gone sour.
You are right about the long term thingy. Any one from sharejunction can turn in profits if they have access to resources like those goodoos.
jackjames ( Date: 21-Nov-2008 22:28) Posted:
Temasek senior managers volunter for paid cut for 15%-25%... Ouch... well, they are still "well-paid" after the cut... but maybe must change the BMW 7 series to VIOS.. that's all
Thanks for the info. I really hope the ones they are vested in goes bankrupt. Many thot they were suckers when they came out with the money so quickly. They must think they are damn f#%@*^g business savvy. ABC learning in Ozzie went bust and only they know how many more investments not reported have gone sour.
You are right about the long term thingy. Any one from sharejunction can turn in profits if they have access to resources like those goodoos.
jackjames ( Date: 21-Nov-2008 22:28) Posted:
Temasek senior managers volunter for paid cut for 15%-25%... Ouch... well, they are still "well-paid" after the cut... but maybe must change the BMW 7 series to VIOS.. that's all.
jackjames ( Date: 21-Nov-2008 16:40) Posted:
Temasek did not buy Citigroup, they bought Merrill Lynch, first purchase at USD 48... right now, after the cash rebate + secondpurchase, their average price is about USD 24.. so, right now, Temasek holding paper loss of 67.5% at least "RIGHT NOW". .. of course they will tell you all the craps that they hold for 10 years.. blar blar blar..
GIC bought USD 9.8 billions of citigroup at about USD 28... they did not disclose the real purchase price, but that's the price range when they announce.... won't go too far... so, GIC is holding paper loss of 83.2% right now... as for UBS ... GIC bought SGD 9.75 billions for UBS at about USD 50... so, GIC is again holding anohter paper loss of 83.12% right now..
of course both party will say, they aim for long term... somemore, they might say, oh please.. i only made 1 mistake so far, look at my past 10 years history, how much i earn selling what gas station, power station, i earn how many "Billions"... that's not the point... the point is, as a prestiguous firm, you made such a big mistake, and no one dares to report such news nowadays at the Straits times, i still remember, when they pumped in the money, the news almost everyday say GIC and Temasek is the biggest shareholder.. blar blar blar, every single day, now is just shy away from public....
so, they have to learn a precious lesson now... US market is far beyond the small little red dot imagination, don't assume it is always as easy as "ABC"....
Temasek senior managers volunter for paid cut for 15%-25%... Ouch... well, they are still "well-paid" after the cut... but maybe must change the BMW 7 series to VIOS.. that's all.
jackjames ( Date: 21-Nov-2008 16:40) Posted:
Temasek did not buy Citigroup, they bought Merrill Lynch, first purchase at USD 48... right now, after the cash rebate + secondpurchase, their average price is about USD 24.. so, right now, Temasek holding paper loss of 67.5% at least "RIGHT NOW". .. of course they will tell you all the craps that they hold for 10 years.. blar blar blar..
GIC bought USD 9.8 billions of citigroup at about USD 28... they did not disclose the real purchase price, but that's the price range when they announce.... won't go too far... so, GIC is holding paper loss of 83.2% right now... as for UBS ... GIC bought SGD 9.75 billions for UBS at about USD 50... so, GIC is again holding anohter paper loss of 83.12% right now..
of course both party will say, they aim for long term... somemore, they might say, oh please.. i only made 1 mistake so far, look at my past 10 years history, how much i earn selling what gas station, power station, i earn how many "Billions"... that's not the point... the point is, as a prestiguous firm, you made such a big mistake, and no one dares to report such news nowadays at the Straits times, i still remember, when they pumped in the money, the news almost everyday say GIC and Temasek is the biggest shareholder.. blar blar blar, every single day, now is just shy away from public....
so, they have to learn a precious lesson now... US market is far beyond the small little red dot imagination, don't assume it is always as easy as "ABC"....
WASHINGTON (AFP) - - With Citigroup stock value plunging, top executives at the financial giant are considering the sale of all or parts of the company, the Wall Street Journal reported on its website.
The debate within the company is at a "preliminary stage," and officials said the company has "ample capital, funding and strategic direction," the daily said.
The sale option is one of a range of dire scenarios company executives were considering after Citigroup stock fell another 26 percent Thursday, after a 23 percent drop on Wednesday.
The company's board of directors is expected to meet Friday to discuss options to reverse the stock slide, people familiar with the situation told the daily.
Citigroup, a component of the blue-chip Dow Jones Industrial Average, has tumbled more than 70 percent since the start of the year, with the bank hit by hefty writeoffs linked to the US real estate crisis.
Chief Executive Vikram Pandit and other company executives have told colleagues they are frustrated and confused by this week's 50 percent stock decline, the daily said.
Citigroup stocks on Thursday closed at 4.71 dollars, their lowest level in 15 years, despite Wednesday's announcement by Saudi Arabian investor Prince Alwaleed bin Talal bin Abdulaziz Al Saud that he would increase his holdings in Citigroup Inc. to 5.0 percent, adding that he supports the banking giant's management.
At 25.6 billion dollars, Citigroup's value on the stock market is barely higher than the 25 billion dollar aid package the US Treasury extended it last month, in the framework of its 700 billion dollar bailout plan for stricken financial institutions.
Besides considering selling the company to another bank, Citigroup executives are also looking into selling parts of the company, including the Smith Barney retail brockerage, the global credit-card division and transaction-services unit, Citigroup's most lucrative and fast-growing businesses, the newspaper said.
They are also exploring the possibility of merging with a rival. Some analysts have pointed to Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. as potential suitors, market analysts told the daily.
Citigroup also want to make it more difficult for investors to place bets that the company's share price will fall, a strategy known as "short selling," and have been lobbying the Securities and Exchange Commission to reinstate a ban on the trading strategy imposed at the start of the stock market crash.
Citigroup on Monday announced it was slashing a near-record 50,000 jobs worldwide in further belt tightening to cope with the global financial crisis and heavy losses. At its peak last year, the company employed 375,000 people.
It was the second largest job-cut announcement on record, according to global outplacement consultancy Challenger, Gray & Christmas, tying with 50,000 job cuts by retailer Sears, Roebuck & Co. in 1993 behind the all-time largest the same year: 60,000 by IBM.
Temasek did not buy Citigroup, they bought Merrill Lynch, first purchase at USD 48... right now, after the cash rebate + secondpurchase, their average price is about USD 24.. so, right now, Temasek holding paper loss of 67.5% at least "RIGHT NOW". .. of course they will tell you all the craps that they hold for 10 years.. blar blar blar..
GIC bought USD 9.8 billions of citigroup at about USD 28... they did not disclose the real purchase price, but that's the price range when they announce.... won't go too far... so, GIC is holding paper loss of 83.2% right now... as for UBS ... GIC bought SGD 9.75 billions for UBS at about USD 50... so, GIC is again holding anohter paper loss of 83.12% right now..
of course both party will say, they aim for long term... somemore, they might say, oh please.. i only made 1 mistake so far, look at my past 10 years history, how much i earn selling what gas station, power station, i earn how many "Billions"... that's not the point... the point is, as a prestiguous firm, you made such a big mistake, and no one dares to report such news nowadays at the Straits times, i still remember, when they pumped in the money, the news almost everyday say GIC and Temasek is the biggest shareholder.. blar blar blar, every single day, now is just shy away from public....
so, they have to learn a precious lesson now... US market is far beyond the small little red dot imagination, don't assume it is always as easy as "ABC"....
so citibank will drop to $2 and we can go in and buy?
goondoo ( Date: 21-Nov-2008 08:47) Posted:
Most likely scenario is Citigroup gets nationalized like AIG, where current shareholders get wiped out, US govt step in to take 80% or 90% of citigroup shares through new issue at maybe $2 per share.
Current Citigroup share price is already reflecting almost a 100% chance of above happening, but it takes time to fall to $2 range, as stocks usually drop max 20% to 30% a day. $2 would be a good entry point for Citigroup, unlike AIG which may wind up a few yr later, think Citigroup may survive long term and slowly gets privatised again 10 yr later, when US govt reduce their 80% stake.
$2 Citi shares may become $6 or even $10 again in 10 yr time.
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