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longest holding counter

Power, Cheers.

derricktan      ( Date: 24-Feb-2009 10:55) Posted: no rigid rules...it depends on your persecptives and objectives of investing. I am a trader so i trade and make good 4-5 fig monthly. Best thing i dont need a job and worry about market up or down. i just follow the trends. As i say no right or worng..do wahtever you feel comfortable. Cheers !

 

no rigid rules...it depends on your persecptives and objectives of investing. I am a trader so i trade and make good 4-5 fig monthly. Best thing i dont need a job and worry about market up or down. i just follow the trends. As i say no right or worng..do wahtever you feel comfortable. Cheers !

 

I think cutting loss is applicable when two criteria are met. First criterion is that one knows the fundamentals of the company has changed permanently and it will damage the earnings of the company permanently (e.g. forced sale of a profitable production facility from a company in order to pay its debts). Second criterion is that the current stock price is over-valued above the company's intrinsic value and maybe heading for a correction drop in price because this overvalued price is not sustainable.

If one has bought shares of a company at sufficiently lower price than what the company is worth (during this period of time), unnecessarily selling the shares at such a low price now maybe a disadvantage in the future. I will instead look at accumulating shares at low prices slowly over this whole period of time. When the price forms a new low and has stabilised, I will buy some more. I am not fighting the downtrend. I just see it as buying parts of the companies at lower prices I like. When the market recovers, my substantial amount of share holdings accumulated now will reap many folds returns for me and my capital may double or triple in amount in the next few years (during bull run). I don't think this kind of bear market will continue forever though I hope it continues longer so that I can buy time and accumulate even more shares. Trading excessively short-term can result in excessive transaction costs one needs to pay. One's paper loss will be minimal if he knows when to buy in and do down averaging efficiently. Even if one has a paper loss now, the dividends collected on a substantial amount of share holdings in good dividend yield companies can help to offset part of the paper loss now. 

As long as one have the reserve capital to invest out this whole period, one should celebrate the drop in stock prices since one can keep accumulating shares at lower prices. I personally have managed to accumulate substantial amount of shares in a few large companies already which I would not be able to do so in a bull market. So, I don't intend to do selling now. Buying is the in-thing for me now. I will keep celebrating even lower prices (stock price bargains) and buy more and more shares in the companies I like. 

Patience is the key to make great returns if one has invested in the right companies. I am already looking at collecting substantial amount of dividends (from my invested companies) and if this current low market continues, my share holdings will keep increasing and my total dividends collected will continue to rise to even more dividends in future. Collecting dividends to me is a safe way of making stable consistent returns (in good times and bad times). If the total amount of dividends collected for an investor yearly (from a large portfolio of shares) is in the amount of more than $10k, is there a need to do trading anymore considered the risk involved? A huge amount of dividends is safe consistent returns over a long period of time. 

 

Be sensible, To me cutting losing only happen when i feel that the earning or the price of the stock have out of my expectation, Otherwise keep it, like present market buy and hold tight,tight.

 

 

I  always have my entry and exit rules and cut loss when i am wrong. no point hoping and hoping for years and years as some of you have mentioned.

 

Agreed! Cut loss is the "master key" to anything should you discover your mistake. But the difficult part is to ACT on it. Let's remember that "Thinking is just rehearsing, one must really learn to act".

cheongwee      ( Date: 23-Feb-2009 16:39) Posted: You are wise...we must have a cut loss in life for everything...even relationship...it is true..no point hope against hope..becomw hopeless.. as to your friend still holding and hoping..that was me initially..advise them to sell to strength and move on...and advise them to have a cut loss...in future. for me anything below a yr is 10%....never let a stock go below 25%...or at least the most for long term stock set at 25%..cut loss.. singaporegal      ( Date: 18-Feb-2009 22:12) Posted: I use a strict cut loss rule. But I know a friend who bought Creative at $21 and still holding onto it. Another fella bought Chartered at around $5 and still holding onto it.

 

You are wise...we must have a cut loss in life for everything...even relationship...it is true..no point hope against hope..becomw hopeless..

as to your friend still holding and hoping..that was me initially..advise them to sell to strength and move on...and advise them to have a cut loss...in future.

for me anything below a yr is 10%....never let a stock go below 25%...or at least the most for long term stock set at 25%..cut loss..

singaporegal      ( Date: 18-Feb-2009 22:12) Posted: I use a strict cut loss rule. But I know a friend who bought Creative at $21 and still holding onto it. Another fella bought Chartered at around $5 and still holding onto it.  des_khor      ( Date: 18-Feb-2009 11:54) Posted: No much new topic... just creat something to ask..   Which counter holding longest from your portfolio ?? myself mediaring since 2002...

 

Two ways to evaluate a company's intrinsic value:-

One way is to look at the earnings per share (EPS). Look for companies that show a consistent growth in EPS through a period of at least 10 years. This means one can only invest in companies that have been scrutinised by their annual financial reports for at least 10 years. A consistent growth in EPS through the years is a rough indication that the company is growing its earnings, and not diluting shareholder's returns, and may have a good chance to continue to do so in future. EPS can also reveal whether the company is of a cyclical nature. If the EPS fluctuates too much through the years. Either the company has unstable earnings or is of a cyclical nature, so some years show low EPS and other years better EPS and it seems to go in repeated cycles.

There is a free software to calculate the intrinsic value (how much one should pay for stock price) based on EPS.

Second way to evaluate a company's financial strength is to look at it's cashflows for at least 10 years of annual financial reports. This is slightly complicated as one needs to look at a few types of cashflows taken together (cashflow generated from operations, cashflow generated from financing and cashflow generated from investing activities). Generally, a company must have a good cashflow generated from operations. If the cashflow is negative, the company is not generating cash from its operations.

Cashflow generated from financing may be positive or negative depending on how much liabilities the company owes (its debts) (negative value since the company needs to pay the debts), dividends paid to shareholders (negative value meaning money is paid out of company to shareholders), and any cash that it has managed to borrow or raised (showing positive value since the company has this cash at hand). Generally, cashflow generated from financing shows the three types of commitments, debts owed, dividends paid up, and money managed to raised up (through borrowings or issusing more shares). It can show whether the company is taking on too much risk (if debts owed is too much), paying too much or little dividends or even if money is raised, it has to be put to good use (not used to pay large amounts of debts owed).

Cashflow generated from investing shows how the company makes or lose money by its investments. A company will invest in its own operations (e.g. using money to buy equipments or facilities) and may also invest in other foreign (out of company business) investments. This value may be positive or negative. One has to look at where and how much the company has invested part of its money, and the more the company reveals the nature of its investements clearly, it is to the investor's advantage to know whether the company's management is putting its money into investments that are sound and can yield better returns for the company.

There is a free software to calculate the intrinsic value (price one should pay for a company stock) based on the cashflows generated from operations.

Conclusion:- There is a fair bit of homework and constant monitoring on the financial reports to do if an investor is looking at investing in a company long term. One wouldn't like negative surprises from the company through the years. Short term trading function on a different platform looking at technical indicators to decide buying and selling points, so looking at financial reports is of lesser importance since their commitment to the company's stocks is short term in nature.

 

Two ways to evaluate a company's intrinsic value:- One way is to look at the earnings per share (EPS). Look for companies that show a consistent growth in EPS through a period of at least 10 years. This means one can only invest in companies that have been scrutinised by their annual financial reports for at least 10 years. A consistent growth in EPS through the years is a rough indication that the company is growing its earnings, and not diluting shareholder's returns, and may have a good chance to continue to do so in future. EPS can also reveal whether the company is of a cyclical nature. If the EPS fluctuates too much through the years. Either the company has unstable earnings or is of a cyclical nature, so some years show low EPS and other years better EPS and it seems to go in repeated cycles. There is a free software to calculate the intrinsic value (how much one should pay for stock price) based on EPS. Second way to evaluate a company's financial strength is to look at it's cashflows for at least 10 years of annual financial reports. This is slightly complicated as one needs to look at a few types of cashflows taken together (cashflow generated from operations, cashflow generated from financing and cashflow generated from investing activities). Generally, a company must have a good cashflow generated from operations. If the cashflow is negative, the company is not generating cash from its operations. Cashflow generated from financing may be positive or negative depending on how much liabilities the company owes (its debts) (negative value since the company needs to pay the debts), dividends paid to shareholders (negative value meaning money is paid out of company to shareholders), and any cash that it has managed to borrow or raised (showing positive value since the company has this cash at hand). Generally, cashflow generated from financing shows the three types of commitments, debts owed, dividends paid up, and money managed to raised up (through borrowings or issusing more shares). It can show whether the company is taking on too much risk (if debts owed is too much), paying too much or little dividends or even if money is raised, it has to be put to good use (not used to pay large amounts of debts owed). Cashflow generated from investing shows how the company makes or lose money by its investments. A company will invest in its own operations (e.g. using money to buy equipments or facilities) and may also invest in other foreign (out of company business) investments. This value may be positive or negative. One has to look at where and how much the company has invested part of its money, and the more the company reveals the nature of its investements clearly, it is to the investor's advantage to know whether the company's management is putting its money into investments that are sound and can yield better returns for the company. There is a free software to calculate the intrinsic value (price one should pay for a company stock) based on the cashflows generated from operations. Conclusion:- There is a fair bit of homework and constant monitoring on the financial reports to do if an investor is looking at investing in a company long term. One wouldn't like negative surprises from the company through the years. Short term trading function on a different platform looking at technical indicators to decide buying and selling points, so looking at financial reports is of lesser importance since their commitment to the company's stocks is short term in nature.

 

Intrinsic value = market value... hehehe... 

 

Great sharing. New comers will learn fr d forum, fr all sifus, there is no mile stone for learning.

wongmx6      ( Date: 19-Feb-2009 09:10) Posted: Sound Good!!!  Intrinsic value is something that very obscure, Market always drive by sentiment. i guess EPS, Book Value or NTA is a better scale. Please share your current holding? jeremyow      ( Date: 19-Feb-2009 00:27) Posted: I think it depends on the price of the individual stocks that some people have bought in and future prospects of holding on to it. If they have bought at a low average price previously, and they have bought stocks of good companies that pay good dividends over the years, I see no issue to sell so early. The longer one hold on to and receive dividends and still reinvest the dividends received to buy more shares of the same company at current low price or other companies with equal potential of making good returns, the better one will make in future returns. This is the compounding effect at work that cannot be underestimated. Lower share price means having opportunity to increase one's holdings in the same company. By the next market recovery, one will turn out even better returns by accumulating as many shares at low average price before the recovery. They key is never to hold stocks that were bought at higher prices than intrinsic value of the stock. One only holds on to stocks of good companies that were previously bought at much lower prices than intrinsic value of the particular stock for a long period of time. Buy at sensible time and sell at sensible time. If one already missed this current low moment to buy in, then never hop on to the higher prices 1 year down the road. I will not get excited at buying when it's bull market. I am only willing to buy in agressively in bear market at sensible low prices. I will go on a stock holiday with not much buying when the next bull market runs for the next few years. In that way, I avoid buying at high prices. If one is rather impatient, then one may still do only a little amount of trading during bull market to give a slight boost to one's returns further since prices are on a general uptrend. The major core of one's investments should still be with good stable companies (with shares bought at a previous sufficiently low price) that give regular dividends over the years.

 

Sound Good!!!  Intrinsic value is something that very obscure, Market always drive by sentiment. i guess EPS, Book Value or NTA is a better scale. Please share your current holding?

jeremyow      ( Date: 19-Feb-2009 00:27) Posted: I think it depends on the price of the individual stocks that some people have bought in and future prospects of holding on to it. If they have bought at a low average price previously, and they have bought stocks of good companies that pay good dividends over the years, I see no issue to sell so early. The longer one hold on to and receive dividends and still reinvest the dividends received to buy more shares of the same company at current low price or other companies with equal potential of making good returns, the better one will make in future returns. This is the compounding effect at work that cannot be underestimated. Lower share price means having opportunity to increase one's holdings in the same company. By the next market recovery, one will turn out even better returns by accumulating as many shares at low average price before the recovery. They key is never to hold stocks that were bought at higher prices than intrinsic value of the stock. One only holds on to stocks of good companies that were previously bought at much lower prices than intrinsic value of the particular stock for a long period of time. Buy at sensible time and sell at sensible time. If one already missed this current low moment to buy in, then never hop on to the higher prices 1 year down the road. I will not get excited at buying when it's bull market. I am only willing to buy in agressively in bear market at sensible low prices. I will go on a stock holiday with not much buying when the next bull market runs for the next few years. In that way, I avoid buying at high prices. If one is rather impatient, then one may still do only a little amount of trading during bull market to give a slight boost to one's returns further since prices are on a general uptrend. The major core of one's investments should still be with good stable companies (with shares bought at a previous sufficiently low price) that give regular dividends over the years.

 

I think it depends on the price of the individual stocks that some people have bought in and future prospects of holding on to it. If they have bought at a low average price previously, and they have bought stocks of good companies that pay good dividends over the years, I see no issue to sell so early. The longer one hold on to and receive dividends and still reinvest the dividends received to buy more shares of the same company at current low price or other companies with equal potential of making good returns, the better one will make in future returns. This is the compounding effect at work that cannot be underestimated. Lower share price means having opportunity to increase one's holdings in the same company. By the next market recovery, one will turn out even better returns by accumulating as many shares at low average price before the recovery.

They key is never to hold stocks that were bought at higher prices than intrinsic value of the stock. One only holds on to stocks of good companies that were previously bought at much lower prices than intrinsic value of the particular stock for a long period of time. Buy at sensible time and sell at sensible time. If one already missed this current low moment to buy in, then never hop on to the higher prices 1 year down the road. I will not get excited at buying when it's bull market. I am only willing to buy in agressively in bear market at sensible low prices. I will go on a stock holiday with not much buying when the next bull market runs for the next few years. In that way, I avoid buying at high prices. If one is rather impatient, then one may still do only a little amount of trading during bull market to give a slight boost to one's returns further since prices are on a general uptrend. The major core of one's investments should still be with good stable companies (with shares bought at a previous sufficiently low price) that give regular dividends over the years.

 

Yes...

And many of these people kept on trusting the strong fundamentals...
week by week, month by month... they staunchly stick to the good fundamentals...

They become more staunch even till their stocks have already reached half-price...

Well, they only have themselves to blame if they lose a lot of money...

 

I use a strict cut loss rule.

But I know a friend who bought Creative at $21 and still holding onto it. Another fella bought Chartered at around $5 and still holding onto it. 

des_khor      ( Date: 18-Feb-2009 11:54) Posted: No much new topic... just creat something to ask..   Which counter holding longest from your portfolio ?? myself mediaring since 2002...

 

Amazing, could resist to download while SIA n ST Trdg peaked at 20.20 n 5.65 respectively.

A typical good n long term investor. Cheers.

Kensonic77      ( Date: 18-Feb-2009 13:08) Posted: My longest holding stocks are SIA bought at 8.85 x 10 bought in 1988 under the CPF investment scheme and Straits Trading at 2.34 x 20 in 1990.  All these stocks are with very attractive dividends payout every year. No plan to sell at the moment.

 

My longest holding stocks are SIA bought at 8.85 x 10 bought in 1988 under the CPF investment scheme and Straits Trading at 2.34 x 20 in 1990.  All these stocks are with very attractive dividends payout every year. No plan to sell at the moment. 

 

Ha ha, how about ST- A n ST- B in our CPF. Nearly forgotten them liao.

 

My longest holding is hai sun hup....now Singapore ship, Stamford land and Cougar log...this Hai Sun Hup really..a gem...it make me $$$$..and good dividend...

In life,,,if u are lucky, just a few of this is enough to even out all the other 70% losses...

and of course..SLV,SLW,..and alot more form 2000...gold and silver mine stock..and physical.

the lastest is my joy .and i want to shout for joy..

 

No much new topic... just creat something to ask..

 

Which counter holding longest from your portfolio ??

myself mediaring since 2002...