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Bailing out Lehman Minibond holders
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knightbridge
Veteran |
30-Oct-2008 14:08
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Alot of countries didnt approved these type of credit deriative product to be sold over the bank counters. Maybe should look into this. Bank will have to compensate the lehman investor, if not they can say bye bye to selling new products for the next few years. Might as well close the retail investment arm. No sales keep RM to do what, serve coffee to customers (kopi aunt can do this job better at a quarter of their pay) Banks should be bank and focus on it core function and not selling things with loads of promoter RM like supermarket. Give u a new scenario, where banks start to sell electrical goods. You go bank put deposit. The teller say hi sir would you like to look at our promotion Sharp LCD TV 42" going for $999 good bargain or this iphone only $500. Would you like to see, I get my Relation Manager a demo on this LCD TV with many new function you know. Most people will cry if these happen |
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junction
Senior |
30-Oct-2008 08:23
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Let be fair. When the investors buy an investment plan, they are expecting better return else they would have put it in their saving account. They are aware of their option to leave in saving, but chosen the risky option due to greed. Their money didn't go to the banks. Won't it be unfair that the banks compensate them fully. For those uneducated and the elderly, it is fair to compensate them since they don't have much earning abilities and option to recover their loses. In the case of insurance, the plan is to protect the people when they are old, not driven by greed - these I believe should also be fully compensated For 5% locked in for 5.5 years and you call that Greed? These people want safety and regular payment because these products were promoted as such! Does it mean that those who choose fixed deposit over savings are also greedy because fixed deposit gives better rates but tied down for the duration of the deposit? |
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Arbitrager
Senior |
30-Oct-2008 00:52
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even our town councilrun by PAP elites also buy into lehman crap.. Only Hougang and Potong Pasir din invest into these junks. So if future, your area not upgraded, u know y.. lolz.. i wonder will the banks buy back from them?? Town councils’ sinking funds not substantially affected by financial turmoil SINGAPORE : The sinking funds under all 14 PAP—managed town councils are safe and not significantly affected by the failed Lehman Brothers products.
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knightbridge
Veteran |
24-Oct-2008 14:57
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But bank anowsdays, are very aggressive in selling. My experience is I diid stop my loved one almost buying to lehmen products in the local bank before luckily. I am a saleperson also, the sales pressure is every month is big if one month no sales i might be kick very soon When I can get hold of the person cash balance with a click on the computer in the bank, they are obviously easy target for me to do my sales pitch. Some of these people are not greedy, just that they are being sold the idea this is a better product that offer higher return with same risk. So bank got to do something their part, if not everyday i worry for my loved one walking to bank and being sold into one of the high risk product with limited gain. Quite sometime back before the fallout. I had a debate with the RM. I told if not risky bank would have raised the deposit to match these products. I told him if I have to lock in for 5 years with only 5% return I rather invested in SMRT for the next 5 year. (Dividend yield match the product every year, and everyday I can see how much business and they are doing ROE at 11% per annum) And I say if SMRT collaspe, govenment will do bailout cannot let the train stop running. In the end, he agreed with me and give me 2 movie pass without buy anything. (Win - win stuation for all of us)
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leechongpeng
Senior |
24-Oct-2008 13:41
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This is really too low.
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red1721
Senior |
24-Oct-2008 13:31
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FYI, for every $100 invested in private banking, only about $8-$9 is returned to the investor in DBS. |
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leechongpeng
Senior |
24-Oct-2008 13:20
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Let be fair. When the investors buy an investment plan, they are expecting better return else they would have put it in their saving account. They are aware of their option to leave in saving, but chosen the risky option due to greed. Their money didn't go to the banks. Won't it be unfair that the banks compensate them fully. For those uneducated and the elderly, it is fair to compensate them since they don't have much earning abilities and option to recover their loses. In the case of insurance, the plan is to protect the people when they are old, not driven by greed - these I believe should also be fully compensated. |
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knightbridge
Veteran |
23-Oct-2008 18:50
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Finally annoucement to compensate some, to breakdown the unity of the aunt and uncle. Bank take the uncle and aunt out one by one definite is good for the bank and bad for the investors who are being misled into buying the products. They will negotiate one on one with the investor, media will have a hard time getting all the investors feedbank Example Bank Staff talking to a Uncle or Aunt who age is 50 or lower. You are not above 62 and more educated so we cannot compensate u fully ( I am sorry this is the bank policy) But we can offer u 40% of your investment, as we value you as a long time customers of the bank. Bettter sign and take the compensation, if not there are no better alternative for you now. 40% still alot of money you know. If you want to sue, also diffcult for you (not many ppl will follow you) and you need to come out with big sum of lawyer fees. (If case like this happen we will never know, Sad) |
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Alligator
Veteran |
23-Oct-2008 15:12
Yells: "learning from past " |
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Happened to read the announcement by Hong Leong Finance regarding this. Sound like to help those who are 62 or older plus lower than Pri 6 education at the time of buying the mini-bond. http://info.sgx.com/webcorannc.nsf/37e9d50ee377b2304825735f00233861/2617ea7d5d2a2878482574ea003ba9d8?OpenDocument |
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AK_Francis
Supreme |
22-Oct-2008 23:39
Yells: "Happy go lucky, cheers." |
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currently with such a gloomy marget, who wants to cough out $ to save the faces??? | ||||
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knightbridge
Veteran |
22-Oct-2008 22:23
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If they really want to compensate willing they will have come out will many options. Waiting for investigation, pending annoucement. Bank trying to take the aunty and uncle out one by one. If they are not united, they are the losing one on the bargain table. Bank can issue some shares for them to compensate, if they dont want to come out cash. This might be an option. Bank offer umbrella in raining days unlikely. If MAS wants to help aunt and uncle, threatening the bank of revoking their full banking license they will definitely paid up. (MAS some more say on the paper they cannot force bank to pay) My forcast aunt and uncle might recover maybe only 50% of what they invest (on the optimistic side). The aunt and uncle should stick together and do a class action lawsuit against the bank, so that they can bargain more. Bad press is what the bank dislike, with a lawsuit on more bad press for them. The millions they spent on advertising will be wasted. |
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AK_Francis
Supreme |
22-Oct-2008 17:42
Yells: "Happy go lucky, cheers." |
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good idea. hold neck of the trustee banks and get them compensate totally, in prorata loh, to be fare.
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787180
Master |
22-Oct-2008 17:23
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One way to make all these investors happy is to force all local/foreign banks in Singapore to absorb or buy the $500mil sold out at face value...$500mil spread over all banks here..pain is bearable | ||||
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AK_Francis
Supreme |
21-Oct-2008 14:57
Yells: "Happy go lucky, cheers." |
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ha ha , the smart sam used efiling or sending letter loh. kopi tiam beverages asst also bought the minibond. but he steady, he said at this moment crying also no use, don't bother, work first. a retired teacher, his 100k unit trust, dun know what trust, now worth only 21k. really hope those affected badly ones can at least get back portion of the capital.
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arowana1
Member |
21-Oct-2008 14:06
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my guess is that there are a lot of english educated ones who oso bought and lost money. but who wants to raise their hands now? lose face only... so LL keep quiet first hahaha
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AK_Francis
Supreme |
21-Oct-2008 09:26
Yells: "Happy go lucky, cheers." |
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the trustee's bank n financing coy got the clients record.
thus why we can see the data in papers as well as heard that
dicussed in the parliament. clients will rcv notice in due course
once their respective bank had finalised the compensation details.
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ilovebull
Member |
21-Oct-2008 08:59
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Since so many people who invested in the mini bonds are retirees or dont read or understand English, will there be a group of invested who are still not aware of this problem ? Probably they are still thinking that their investments are safe ? It is just like when the government give out handouts or goodies, alot of old or uneducated people are not even aware.... |
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singaporegal
Supreme |
20-Oct-2008 21:10
Yells: "Female TA nut" |
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Relationship and wealth managers need to rebrand themselves. A few bad apples have unfortunately spoilt the entire basket. The only way they can earn the trust of the customers again is if the banks conduct a thourough investigation and punish those who went beyond the line. On the other hand, some responsibility has to be shouldered by customers who bought products that they didn't fully understand. I know of some people who were easily persuaded by a sweet voice or pretty face and bought insurance/investment products that didn't suit their needs. |
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teeth53
Supreme |
19-Oct-2008 12:34
Yells: "don't learn through life, learn to grow with life " |
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Ya..agree with U, even educated one as well. :)) |
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Sporeguy
Elite |
18-Oct-2008 21:01
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I am sure many of us have read some contracts such as buying a house, etc. The print is so fine that after reading a few paragraphs, our minds will start to swell when we see pgs and pgs small prints, don't know what the fine word are saying as they are always written in their jargons. Educated pple will also find it diificult to understand. If only they are written in Simple English and to the point will then customer will benefit. Read below, copied from TheOnline Citizen 6) Concerned Investor on October 18th, 2008 12.32 pm |
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I read with concern the position taken by MAS in focusing their attention on assisting “vulnerable customers” as a first priority. I can only assume that this category of investors are the less well educated who had relied on the RMs and their seeling skills.
Does it then mean that as a well educated person MAS is assuming that one is less vulnerable??
As a well educated person, one also rely on the knowledge of the RMs and the reputation of the banks selling the structured products. As a well educated person, one will ask relevant questions to satisfy oneself of the product and the risk inviolved.
When RMs from our reputable banks are trained to be very convincing and in fact say that the product is “safe” and “capital protected” (which one can assume they were told to tell customers during the training they receive), are well educated people supposed to be less vunnerable??
I urge the MAS to look into every case and not just focus on the less educated who may be more vunverable.
As a closing remark, my mother, who arrived in Singapore more than 50 years ago from a third world country and with no education, will never have placed her money in such products because of a simple philosophy - don’t do something you are not sure about. So, are the less educated more vunverable than a well educated person??