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yummygd Supreme	28-Apr-2011 10:11        yummygd About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	rasing of wages? ermmm its actually up to e employers right?even if government say i agree to minimun wages senario how many will actually agree? den what about hdb new flats at 250k? ermmm i think no longer this price lor. new flats are at a discount of 10 -20 perfect of e resold flat value(in e MAH own mouth) so if resold keeps going up so will new flats. I understand buliding cost went up etc. if wanna do minimun wages den e people building e hdbs will be paid more den who will get it in e end? Im not saying devaluation of e whole of hdbs because it frankly doesn't make sense n in e end singaporeans will complaint more cause believe me we will not be e one to benefit. 3 to 5 years waiting for a unit that is a very long time. n when u get e unit what happen?U walk in n u start hearing mickey mouse theme song playing. 30 years to pay off one hdb flat..its a long time. I repeat HDB is not an asset unless u rent it out(which mean u r either lucky enough to have nice parents to allow u to squeeze in with them.) but we are paying asset pricing for it. Government is misleading the people. dun forget hdb only 99 years hor. not freehold okie. 750 k 800k resale of a hdb flat is not uncommon. I dun need anything i just want MAH to step down n begone haha he cannot make it go anywhere f anything up. cathylmg      ( Date: 27-Apr-2011 22:09) Posted: What I'm saying is this is not the time to discuss about property issue. Because of 80%! I also said gradual increase of  property prices, and  raising the earnings of average Singaporean is more important then bringing down the whole property market. And also having a look at retirement plannings. Especially those of Australia ones, will put the opposition is a better position rather then picking on the wrong issue to argue about.   yummygd      ( Date: 27-Apr-2011 19:13) Posted: but if u r of retirement age n ur children are unlucky enough to be one of the new couple u know what is likely to happen? they will get married n stay with u. if u have 2 kids stayin in a 5 room flat. its okie if they do not have kids but once they started to start their own family....u r talking about 3 families staying under one roof. sure u might not mind it...since we asians are used to it... but its ridiculous. take my neighbour for example. she has two sons n a daughter. sons are married n they each have a child. guessed what all living under e same roof. plus they have a maid also. hence in total 7 adults n 2 small child living in a 4 bedroom senario....sometimes one of them have to go to their auntie place to stay to ease e tension. u like
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cathylmg Elite	28-Apr-2011 09:59        cathylmg About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	So you suggestion is to bring down the prices of the properties for this group of people. And if you bring down the price by 30% to 40%, are you sure they would still be able to afford? I think they should apply for rental flats from the government instead. My friend who is a housewife and husband working with a salary of $1700 who owns a 4-room hdb flats applied for  assistance from the cdac and got $50K of cash added into her CPF ordinary account. And what she did was to let the money keep in the cpf account instead of settling off her loan. Then qualify for all kind of subsidies from the schools to the water and electricities bills. I think there are people out there  doing the same thing too.  Whats wrong  with these people who constanting wanting help and never border to help themselve out of this situation?   Laulan      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 09:14) Posted: That's why you don't understand the poor man's problem.   By poor I mean jobless, unemployed, low wage earners and those elderly but not too old who have little in CPF or savings, by luck, by circumstance or by fate landed them in such situation. On top of this there are also people from impoverished backgrounds, pure Singaporeans, average workers.   They don't have $5K in their CPF. OK, many newly weds in their 20s, 30s, don't have sufficient earnings/savings which are the primary qualifications to apply for a HDB flat in the region of $250K or more for new flats and $300 to $400K for old flats.   You think these growing population can afford, I doubt so. Thus WP's proposal has a logic. .   chris168      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 08:58) Posted: Although I don't live in HDB, I do agree with MBT that to reduce the new flat prices by 30-40% proposed by WP? is ill-conceived and dangerous. It will destroy the value of the flats for the already homeowners becos the whole price will be brought down. No asset appreciation and eventually just low-cost housing .... do pple want that?? Steps taken to stop the prices from escalating or even retreating, cooling measures to put a brake on the runaway prices -  yes. Devalue the whole HDB -  no.
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Joe2020 Veteran	28-Apr-2011 09:57        Joe2020 About Contact  Quote this Post!   Yells: "I am the Oracle sent forth unto you that ye shall be warned"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Confuse! Actually what is HDB? is it a stock Ticker? It looks it has potential of making a quantum leap in profit from the way you guys are talking. Which counter and sector should I check if I want to buy it? Farmer      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 09:53) Posted: Some how agree with your est.... but HDB assume that each household has got 2 working adults, thus divided the sum by 2 perhaps = affordable? I would also like to estimate here:  Minister's pay = 50x middle income worker = 100x lower income worker. So he work 1 year, we have to work 50-100yrs? Is that what they say: " We're the servant of the people" ? I think HDB flat should NOT be part of our total asset plan for old age, else, you may end up with lower quality of life after retirement. Sporeguy      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 09:21) Posted: My rough estimation of housing price is 100 x monthly salary. Monthly repayment = 1/4 monthly salary (using CPF). Length of payment = 100/0.25 = 400 months = 33.3 yrs. which tally with MBT's calculation. Paying for 30 yrs is like paying one's whole life which is very tiring. Start work around 25 yrs old, by 33 yrs payment, one's age already 58. If retrench (very high chance in this modern world) at 50, the last 8 yrs will have to pay through own saving. So I think MBT should gauge for 20 years repayment and NOT 30 years. So BTO 4-rm flat should be priced at 70xthe median wage of sporean.
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Farmer Master	28-Apr-2011 09:53        Farmer About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Fundamental   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Some how agree with your est.... but HDB assume that each household has got 2 working adults, thus divided the sum by 2 perhaps = affordable? I would also like to estimate here:  Minister's pay = 50x middle income worker = 100x lower income worker. So he work 1 year, we have to work 50-100yrs? Is that what they say: " We're the servant of the people" ? I think HDB flat should NOT be part of our total asset plan for old age, else, you may end up with lower quality of life after retirement. Sporeguy      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 09:21) Posted: My rough estimation of housing price is 100 x monthly salary. Monthly repayment = 1/4 monthly salary (using CPF). Length of payment = 100/0.25 = 400 months = 33.3 yrs. which tally with MBT's calculation. Paying for 30 yrs is like paying one's whole life which is very tiring. Start work around 25 yrs old, by 33 yrs payment, one's age already 58. If retrench (very high chance in this modern world) at 50, the last 8 yrs will have to pay through own saving. So I think MBT should gauge for 20 years repayment and NOT 30 years. So BTO 4-rm flat should be priced at 70xthe median wage of sporean.
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artng25 Senior	28-Apr-2011 09:48        artng25 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Its still cheaper to 'import'  as opposed to 'organic' production (off with the subsidies, education, health, childcare,  etc). Especially when 'importing' includes 'buy 1 get 3 free'. Sporeguy      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 09:42) Posted: If fact BTO is contrary to govt's asking citizens to increase their birth rate. Waiting for 3 yrs is too long and the fertility drops further. Just bcos of the misjudgement in 1997 (over-supply of HDB flats), MBT swings to the other extreme of grossly under-supply. To entice citizen to raise their birth rate, govt should have ready-built HDB, saying 50% of the estimated required no. of flats yearly.
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cathylmg Elite	28-Apr-2011 09:44        cathylmg About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Well said. To reduce prices by 30%-40%  will create another set of problem. Those that has to sell their flats for a loss will eventually end up becoming poor and needy and more problems spiralling down the economy. Actually for newly wed couples when buying from the market goverment will give subsidy of $30k if I'm not wrong was the last I heard of. If they buy it near their parent which encourage young ones to take care of the old. If they choose to buy from the government their will get it cheaper then then the market. Do the sum. A 3 room flat costs about $250k which first timer needs 20% as deposit? Which comes comes to $50k or $25k each. An adult who is paid $1600 will have at least $400 monthly in their account. So $400 per months comes up to  more then  $25k including interest within 5 years  and you say they can't afford? The balance will be  paid buy CPF with is roughly $700 for a 25 year loan which you say that they can't afford?    You should see how much they can spend on their renovations after they get their flats instead.  I have relative  in the renovation line  that why  I know.   Those staying with their parents and can't afford their own flats. You should ask them how much they are making and how long they have been working to land them in such state. My take is steps taken to stop the prices from escalating or even retreating, cooling measures to put a brake on the runaway prices -  yes. Devalue the whole HDB -  no. chris168      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 08:58) Posted: Although I don't live in HDB, I do agree with MBT that to reduce the new flat prices by 30-40% proposed by WP? is ill-conceived and dangerous. It will destroy the value of the flats for the already homeowners becos the whole price will be brought down. No asset appreciation and eventually just low-cost housing .... do pple want that?? Steps taken to stop the prices from escalating or even retreating, cooling measures to put a brake on the runaway prices -  yes. Devalue the whole HDB -  no.
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artng25 Senior	28-Apr-2011 09:43        artng25 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Whatever it is, I just feel like a  'number'  to them. A number needed just to make up the 'numbers' for them. Laulan      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 09:14) Posted: That's why you don't understand the poor man's problem.   By poor I mean jobless, unemployed, low wage earners and those elderly but not too old who have little in CPF or savings, by luck, by circumstance or by fate landed them in such situation. On top of this there are also people from impoverished backgrounds, pure Singaporeans, average workers.   They don't have $5K in their CPF. OK, many newly weds in their 20s, 30s, don't have sufficient earnings/savings which are the primary qualifications to apply for a HDB flat in the region of $250K or more for new flats and $300 to $400K for old flats.   You think these growing population can afford, I doubt so. Thus WP's proposal has a logic. .   chris168      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 08:58) Posted: Although I don't live in HDB, I do agree with MBT that to reduce the new flat prices by 30-40% proposed by WP? is ill-conceived and dangerous. It will destroy the value of the flats for the already homeowners becos the whole price will be brought down. No asset appreciation and eventually just low-cost housing .... do pple want that?? Steps taken to stop the prices from escalating or even retreating, cooling measures to put a brake on the runaway prices -  yes. Devalue the whole HDB -  no.
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Sporeguy Elite	28-Apr-2011 09:42        Sporeguy About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	If fact BTO is contrary to govt's asking citizens to increase their birth rate. Waiting for 3 yrs is too long and the fertility drops further. Just bcos of the misjudgement in 1997 (over-supply of HDB flats), MBT swings to the other extreme of grossly under-supply. To entice citizen to raise their birth rate, govt should have ready-built HDB, saying 50% of the estimated required no. of flats yearly.
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choonmng Member	28-Apr-2011 09:26        choonmng About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Keeping prices high to provide for asset appreciation is a bad bad idea. HDB are not and should not be a investment vehicle. As a government housing infact this idea should not even be allowed to take root. Government housing are for the mass which includes poor man on the streets. Imagine the social problems we will have eventually when more and more people turn old. 1) An aged person requires more than just an asset that he/she can sell off. Any transaction will incur commission that they have to pay to sell off the current flat. Then another commission to purchase the next flat 2) the Killer is that many couples are both servicing HDB together with both of their CPF with almost nothing for retirement every month. Upon their retirement, they will have almost zero or minimal CPF instead what is left is a flat. Did anyone consider the amount of interest they have to pay every month for th 30yrs which means either Govt have to inflate future hdb prices further so that aged can cash out or if the increase in hdb price is not high enough then the aged couple will even lose after downsizing because of the 30yrs interest. If today we are at a bad position because of the possible depreciation in asset, that means from the start it is already wrong to have HDB as an investment vehicle. IF we do not step the root of the problem now and let it go on for the benefit for the aged for this generation this will be worst for the next.     Laulan      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 09:14) Posted: That's why you don't understand the poor man's problem.   By poor I mean jobless, unemployed, low wage earners and those elderly but not too old who have little in CPF or savings, by luck, by circumstance or by fate landed them in such situation. On top of this there are also people from impoverished backgrounds, pure Singaporeans, average workers.   They don't have $5K in their CPF. OK, many newly weds in their 20s, 30s, don't have sufficient earnings/savings which are the primary qualifications to apply for a HDB flat in the region of $250K or more for new flats and $300 to $400K for old flats.   You think these growing population can afford, I doubt so. Thus WP's proposal has a logic. .   chris168      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 08:58) Posted: Although I don't live in HDB, I do agree with MBT that to reduce the new flat prices by 30-40% proposed by WP? is ill-conceived and dangerous. It will destroy the value of the flats for the already homeowners becos the whole price will be brought down. No asset appreciation and eventually just low-cost housing .... do pple want that?? Steps taken to stop the prices from escalating or even retreating, cooling measures to put a brake on the runaway prices -  yes. Devalue the whole HDB -  no.
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artng25 Senior	28-Apr-2011 09:22        artng25 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	To be more impartial - I should say his wait and see attitude 'contributed' to higher prices rather than 'sending prices higher' artng25      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 09:15) Posted: The oppositions solution is not without its short comings....  in economics, you can't expect to fix a problem without causing another elsewhere. MBT's complacency and failure to anticipate market needs while using his BTO policy as a shield caused this squeeze sending prices higher. Didn't he know his own team was welcoming a higher number of PRs and foreign workers ? He may still be a better man for the job but the govt should had at least 'docked' his pay for 6 months. Pity George Yeo though, its seems like to or die for him
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Sporeguy Elite	28-Apr-2011 09:21        Sporeguy About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	My rough estimation of housing price is 100 x monthly salary. Monthly repayment = 1/4 monthly salary (using CPF). Length of payment = 100/0.25 = 400 months = 33.3 yrs. which tally with MBT's calculation. Paying for 30 yrs is like paying one's whole life which is very tiring. Start work around 25 yrs old, by 33 yrs payment, one's age already 58. If retrench (very high chance in this modern world) at 50, the last 8 yrs will have to pay through own saving. So I think MBT should gauge for 20 years repayment and NOT 30 years. So BTO 4-rm flat should be priced at 70xthe median wage of sporean.
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Laulan Master	28-Apr-2011 09:16        Laulan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	I am a social worker volunteer.   That is why I know and understand the poor man" s problems.
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artng25 Senior	28-Apr-2011 09:16        artng25 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Typo - 'do or die' artng25      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 09:15) Posted: The oppositions solution is not without its short comings....  in economics, you can't expect to fix a problem without causing another elsewhere. MBT's complacency and failure to anticipate market needs while using his BTO policy as a shield caused this squeeze sending prices higher. Didn't he know his own team was welcoming a higher number of PRs and foreign workers ? He may still be a better man for the job but the govt should had at least 'docked' his pay for 6 months. Pity George Yeo though, its seems like to or die for him
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artng25 Senior	28-Apr-2011 09:15        artng25 About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	The oppositions solution is not without its short comings....  in economics, you can't expect to fix a problem without causing another elsewhere. MBT's complacency and failure to anticipate market needs while using his BTO policy as a shield caused this squeeze sending prices higher. Didn't he know his own team was welcoming a higher number of PRs and foreign workers ? He may still be a better man for the job but the govt should had at least 'docked' his pay for 6 months. Pity George Yeo though, its seems like to or die for him
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Laulan Master	28-Apr-2011 09:14        Laulan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	That's why you don't understand the poor man's problem.   By poor I mean jobless, unemployed, low wage earners and those elderly but not too old who have little in CPF or savings, by luck, by circumstance or by fate landed them in such situation. On top of this there are also people from impoverished backgrounds, pure Singaporeans, average workers.   They don't have $5K in their CPF. OK, many newly weds in their 20s, 30s, don't have sufficient earnings/savings which are the primary qualifications to apply for a HDB flat in the region of $250K or more for new flats and $300 to $400K for old flats.   You think these growing population can afford, I doubt so. Thus WP's proposal has a logic. .   chris168      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 08:58) Posted: Although I don't live in HDB, I do agree with MBT that to reduce the new flat prices by 30-40% proposed by WP? is ill-conceived and dangerous. It will destroy the value of the flats for the already homeowners becos the whole price will be brought down. No asset appreciation and eventually just low-cost housing .... do pple want that?? Steps taken to stop the prices from escalating or even retreating, cooling measures to put a brake on the runaway prices -  yes. Devalue the whole HDB -  no.
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chris168 Senior	28-Apr-2011 08:58        chris168 About Contact  Quote this Post! Style: Flexible   Mood:
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Although I don't live in HDB, I do agree with MBT that to reduce the new flat prices by 30-40% proposed by WP? is ill-conceived and dangerous. It will destroy the value of the flats for the already homeowners becos the whole price will be brought down. No asset appreciation and eventually just low-cost housing .... do pple want that?? Steps taken to stop the prices from escalating or even retreating, cooling measures to put a brake on the runaway prices -  yes. Devalue the whole HDB -  no.
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Laulan Master	28-Apr-2011 08:25        Laulan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Many foreigners usually ask " why don't you throw your govt out?" Quite an ironic question because our govt has always supported foreigners to come here and yet they were frequently asking such a question. My answer, " Somehow they always win in elections. How to throw out them who know 'best' to do what they want to do?" .   So we have to bite the bullets, try and try again, I usually pacify them this way. out-of-the-box      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 08:12) Posted: Myself and friend graduate or diploma holder earns over 5000 in the 80's when car price is 35K, HDB 5 room is 35K. Now my pay is less than half (so I need to search money else where) and cost of car is 150K and HDB is 400K (DBSS is 750K). Do you think Singaporean lifes improved?? !!! Myself and friend are pressure with influx of SP who desperate with any pay asa long as can settle down in Singapore.
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Joe2020 Veteran	28-Apr-2011 08:23        Joe2020 About Contact  Quote this Post!   Yells: "I am the Oracle sent forth unto you that ye shall be warned"
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	But I thought Life has improved so much over the centuries? Look below   out-of-the-box      ( Date: 28-Apr-2011 08:12) Posted: Myself and friend graduate or diploma holder earns over 5000 in the 80's when car price is 35K, HDB 5 room is 35K. Now my pay is less than half (so I need to search money else where) and cost of car is 150K and HDB is 400K (DBSS is 750K). Do you think Singaporean lifes improved?? !!! Myself and friend are pressure with influx of SP who desperate with any pay asa long as can settle down in Singapore.
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out-of-the-box Senior	28-Apr-2011 08:12        out-of-the-box About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	Myself and friend graduate or diploma holder earns over 5000 in the 80's when car price is 35K, HDB 5 room is 35K. Now my pay is less than half (so I need to search money else where) and cost of car is 150K and HDB is 400K (DBSS is 750K). Do you think Singaporean lifes improved?? !!! Myself and friend are pressure with influx of SP who desperate with any pay asa long as can settle down in Singapore.
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Laulan Master	28-Apr-2011 08:00        Laulan About Contact  Quote this Post!
x 0   x 0  Alert Admin	my only possession.   There goes my everything, that is if I sold my HDB flat. Cheers.
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